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I actually felt I got more attention at community college. If you were having problems in a class, you could just walk into the classroom and talk to your professor. At my transfer University, you had to request an appointment with a professor. The professors at community college seem to care more about teaching, while the professors at my university seemed to only teach because they had to in order to get research grants, and research was all they cared about.
You do. They are usually much smaller class sizes and the person teaching the class has worked in the field for many years. You don't even see that all the time in 4 year schools with professors. A lot of them have just been on the academic side and have not worked outside of the academic world before. Not all of the time but I bet more so than with a community college. I wonder if there has been a study conducted with real world experience compared to teachers at community colleges vs. professors at 4-year schools?
Most 4 year schools now you get taught by graduate students for your first two years. Hardly anything special or to brag about. At least with community colleges you aren't getting taught by grad students who are mostly fresh out of their undergraduate degree themselves.
He doesn't seem to be talking about classes... which I agree are taught by graduate students. But the interaction you have with Professors and the alike beyond the classroom is where the value is at a university. The point is that the classes are a small part of the entire education process at a college. You get the basics from attending lectures and doing classwork, but you get the rest from everything else.
He doesn't seem to be talking about classes... which I agree are taught by graduate students. But the interaction you have with Professors and the alike beyond the classroom is where the value is at a university. The point is that the classes are a small part of the entire education process at a college. You get the basics from attending lectures and doing classwork, but you get the rest from everything else.
How many kids in undergrad actually volunteer in labs or find a way to work with/learn from the tenured or tenure track professors at most large universities? Maybe 3-5%? In all of our research labs the professors acted as a VP or Director would in a business. They came in once a week or so for lab meetings, but in almost all cases the actual daily research and interactions happened between grad students and undergrads. He's pretending that most freshmen and sophomores are working in high quality research labs, I've never been to a university where that is the norm.
My biggest problem with a student loan bailout is that is gives colleges and universities a free pass for their bad behaviors over the years. Depending on how big the bailout is, it gives the schools a "reset" to continue business as usual. The government also needs to cut back on lending and this would immediately put major downward pressure on the prices in higher education. If you are going to have a bailout, then you need to address the structural issues that created the problem in the first place.
I have no doubt that we will see some form of student loan bailout in the near future. I have serious doubts as to whether any of the underlying structural issues causing the problems are actually addressed.
How many kids in undergrad actually volunteer in labs or find a way to work with/learn from the tenured or tenure track professors at most large universities? Maybe 3-5%? In all of our research labs the professors acted as a VP or Director would in a business. They came in once a week or so for lab meetings, but in almost all cases the actual daily research and interactions happened between grad students and undergrads. He's pretending that most freshmen and sophomores are working in high quality research labs, I've never been to a university where that is the norm.
Very, very few. Probably fewer than 3-5% overall. And if you are part of a research lab you are going to be interacting with graduate students more than the professor running the lab. A lot of disciplines don't even have research labs to begin with. A tenured faculty member is likely teaching about a 2-2 load with definitely one and maybe even two of those courses being graduate courses. Most senior faculty at large institutions do not like teaching undergraduate students. They would much prefer graduate courses if given a choice. Smaller class sizes, better students, and less babysitting than undergraduate courses require. At a large institution you are very likely to be taught by graduate students for the majority of 100 and 200-level courses.
You do. They are usually much smaller class sizes and the person teaching the class has worked in the field for many years. You don't even see that all the time in 4 year schools with professors. A lot of them have just been on the academic side and have not worked outside of the academic world before. Not all of the time but I bet more so than with a community college. I wonder if there has been a study conducted with real world experience compared to teachers at community colleges vs. professors at 4-year schools?
My professors at my 4 year had been out of the field so long they didnt know what the real world of practice was like anymore. They taught us assessments that took 2 hours to administer...know how long of an assessment Medicare will actually reimburse for? 15 minutes. It was a rude awakening by the time I got to my clinicals.
In CC, many seemed to love their subject and teaching it. My A&P teacher was actually a dentist, who graduated and discovered she hated being a dentist, lol. But she was awesome because she loved teaching science. My 2 biology professors too. And I am awful at math. I had to take a remedial Algebra class when I first started (I had actually quit high school years before). One time we had a quiz that was going to be followed by a test during the next class. There were half a dozen students that did poorly on the quiz. So the teacher called all those students at home, told them to meet her in the class an hour before the test, and went over the material again with them.
My biggest problem with a student loan bailout is that is gives colleges and universities a free pass for their bad behaviors over the years. Depending on how big the bailout is, it gives the schools a "reset" to continue business as usual. The government also needs to cut back on lending and this would immediately put major downward pressure on the prices in higher education. If you are going to have a bailout, then you need to address the structural issues that created the problem in the first place.
I have no doubt that we will see some form of student loan bailout in the near future. I have serious doubts as to whether any of the underlying structural issues causing the problems are actually addressed.
+1. Great post.
IMO there are few ways to begin. A). Bifurcate loans to 4 year public and private university and grad school students from other areas of student loans - the pain points are overwhelmingly in the JUCO, for profit and trade school areas. B). Academically means test loans. Students who barely graduate high school should prove up their ability by making As in a couple of JUCO classes before receiving significant loan proceeds. C). Force some level of cost rationality into the process. I have a way younger cousin who graduated from a small private college back east with a sociology degree and ~$98K in debt. No rational, "system" should allow that outcome let alone fund it.
So, if I want to take out loans to get an MBA do you think they'll do the same thing again in 5-10 years? I'd love an MBA paid for by the tax payers. Just a bit too pricey for me right now.
Yup, we are millennials and my wife didn't go to college and she's doing just fine. Makes over $60k/yr in a relatively low cost of living area. I went to a public in state school because my parents couldn't afford to send me to an expensive private school and wouldn't allow me to take out loans to pay for it that way, then applied to fully funded PhD programs to lower my cost of attendance, still ended up with $25k in student loans. But we lived like we were poor college students until I paid the debt off. While all my friends were going on vacations around the world we were saving every dime to pay off the loans. I guess we should have just gone to New Zealand or Australia with the money instead, like most of my friends did. They are all over FB right now talking about how awesome it would be if Biden signed a bill forgiving $50k in student loans, like they got screwed by their decision to go to grad school and then spend most of what they made afterwards.
Your post gives me a ray of hope, as you exemplify personal responsibility, accountability, and integrity.
I will go so far as to say you are a credit to your parents, and will teach your children well, should you decide to have a family.
Live long and prosper!
I don’t think most people here are asking for more than that. It really is kind of surprising if so many groups have been offered relief, but not that group. Of course higher unemployment as well as Covid restrictions have affected ability to pay right now. I know from Reddit and Facebook groups, that many therapists had their new positions canceled when Covid hit.
Many rehabs are battling low census and laying off therapists as people’s elective hip and knee and other elective surgeries have been cancelled (their bread and butter), and many families have elected to care for elderly patients at home due to fear of Covid in nursing homes and rehabs. So if you had the bad luck to graduate in the spring from a therapy program, you’re most likely paying student loans but having difficulty finding a full time job anywhere.
I can only speak for therapy as a profession because that’s the one I’m familiar with, but I am sure that there are many industries where hiring decisions were affected by Covid , leaving new grads in a bad place. Just imagine having majored in restaurant and hospitality management, which would have been a highly employable degree a year ago but at this moment not so much.
If they were full-time students and actually hadn’t begun working in their field yet, then they wouldn’t be eligible for unemployment. Many are most likely getting by on gig jobs or grocery store jobs, which may pay the rent but are hardly likely to enable them to pay student loans too.
I know people who have student loans that are 20 years old and they've never paid a dime back. Eventually Social Security will make them pay it back thankfully.
It's a great thing she didn't go to community college if she wanted to a full college education. Community college grants college credit but that's all it does. It doesn't provide a solid college education which is primarily attained outside of the classroom (typically in research labs and opportunities). The first two years of college are critical for this but community colleges leave it out.
Not true at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bullish
Most 4 year schools now you get taught by graduate students for your first two years. Hardly anything special or to brag about. At least with community colleges you aren't getting taught by grad students who are mostly fresh out of their undergraduate degree themselves.
Actually, more likely to get a professor at CC than at large university. But where I was, grad students mainly ran the labs, professors taught the classes.
Last edited by ddeemo; 01-03-2021 at 10:01 PM..
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