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No, we are not moving toward socialism. We would like some more social programs to even things out but that is not socialism. Health care for all instead of just for those who can afford it would be fair to all. We started to get it but it just needs to be fixed so it's affordable to all, not dirt cheap to some or expensive to others.
We still need schools and libraries, parks and roads. If you think that's socialism, there is no way to talk to you. Any decent country has its citizens pay in to the pot so that the money is there when/if they need it. They may never need it or they may suddenly need it desperately. And most people wouldn't throw away their Medicare that they paid into. We want to help our neighbors, our fellow Americans. Yes, we want the cheats weeded out and we all agree on that. But social programs are beneficial and an essential part of a decent, caring country.
YES. Love your responses here. Balance is needed. We are way, way out of balance now.
I remember when Obamacare first became a topic of conversation, I was in company of mostly conservative to libertarian types, and holy moly were they mad about it. They were saying it was the death knell of small business, because of the mandates, and how now you could not afford to do anything BUT work for a big company that could put you on a big group plan, because either the individual mandate was too onerous, the cost of coverage too onerous, and then the cost of providing healthcare to employees was too onerous.
Honestly I don't think that they were wrong, but I think that the better solution, rather than people being "free" to just not have healthcare and die destitute if they got cancer or something, would be for there to be universal healthcare.
I actually believe that we have the technology to eliminate the need for human beings to do a lot of the jobs, especially the dirty and dangerous ones, that exist even today. That there is not a need for any American citizen to spend their life grinding away more or less pointless work, just to survive. That if people had the basic right to dignified survival, with the freedom to work for prosperity and luxury, people would still work, and if free to learn any skill or knowledge, to innovate and to create without being forcibly locked in a cubicle, or in some menial hamster wheel for life, we'd all gain by it. I don't understand anyone's investment in life being miserable for as many people as possible, the idea that we need suffering in order to be noble or good.
So the conservatives were big mad that healthcare would be required, and they figure this would stifle small business...but I tell ya, being forced to roll the dice and chance it with no healthcare in order to pursue my dream of opening a small business, is not my idea of being truly "free." The idea that medical care is a luxury that you should only get if you can afford it, does not sit too well with me.
Seems to me that conservatives are quite OK with Americans being denied actual freedom, so long as they are being forced in a direction that they (the conservatives) believe to be right and good. I already pay a ton of taxes, I really would much prefer that went to everybody having decent, equal healthcare access, rather than to bail out huge corporations and help billionaires and other shenanigans that our tax money has gone to, and indeed beyond that, they've been willing to sink us into debt for those things. But to take care of the PEOPLE? Oh heck no. So instead, when my schizophrenic family member attempted suicide, we got a good $5,000 in med bills dumped on us, DESPITE having pretty good coverage that I pay thousands for in premiums every year.
We have reached a point where it's hard to prosper even if you have a good job and you work hard. Something has got to give.
...Social Security pensions and disability coverage are socialist programs. Having a police force, a public library and sewer lines paid for out of your taxes are pure socialism. You don't hear anyone griping about those.
I know! I surely don't understand why Mr. Camaro is so fearful of this one word that happens to inhabit our daily lives in so many ways, and to our benefit!
We've been halfway down the slope for decades. Social Security pensions and disability coverage are socialist programs. Having a police force, a public library and sewer lines paid for out of your taxes are pure socialism. You don't hear anyone griping about those.
I hear a lot of griping about taxes. People want all those things for free.
We are kind of becoming more like China, an authoritarian crony capitalist society where the govt manipulates the market to pick the winners.
Exactly.
People who like socialism usually don't distinguish between crony-capitalism and free market capitalism. It's all the same to them. Since we've had crony capitalism for so long, I can sort of understand why they think that. So they think socialism is a valid alternative. But really it's just a different form of authoritarian control.
The global elite figured out that Socialsm/communism all by itself would fail. You need consumer goodies to give people the illusion of choice and freedom. So they combined crony capitalsim and socialism/communism. The two are really just 2 different masks on the same authoritarian face.
I'm sure they're laughing behind our backs as we argue endlessly with each other about which form of authoritarian control is better.
Are municipal (ie. owned by the municipality) utilities socialist?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes
Are public schools socialist?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes
Are city-owned fire departments socialist?
Yes.
All are forms of socialism.
I'll be the first to agree a purely capitalist economy isn't good. But the problem is we've been getting more and more socialist over time. And we've also been getting more and more crony capitalist over time (i.e. big monopolistic or cartel-like businesses dominate many industries with only limited competition)
Because socialism is a bad word in the U.S., it's never sold to us as socialism when it's new. And once it becomes the normal way of doing business, it ceases to be perceived as socialist by the majority.
Once you understand we have 2 forms of authoritarian control (socialism/communism & crony capitalism) that work hand in hand (like they do in authoritarian China), it all makes sense.
100%. Leftist try to stick to a strict definition of these to deflect from what's happening. You can call it whatever you like. The results are the same.
Yes, leftists in general like to stick to textbook definitions of socialism/communism so that they can deny what is happening right under their noses.
But a few leftists (like Camille Paglia, Naomi Wolf, and Christina Hoff Summers) get what is going on (to at least some degree). Of course, they don't get much air time in the mainstream media.
No America is not a socialist country but North Korea is but they don't do a damn thing to help their people. Oh maybe there is a similarity after all....
Sticking with the topic, rather than veering off-topic into authoritarianism, which is easy to do as soon as the "socialism" boogeyman is mentioned, I ask you, OP; is there any sign, that people will be prohibited from owning their own business, and offering goods or services for a profit? Has that ever been under discussion on a national, or any, level? If not, then there's no risk of the US going Socialist.
What do you mean. In the video I poster earlier, Naomi Wolf talked about how so many small businesses have been closed (with Covid as the reason) and aren't coming back and the bigger businesses benefit from that. They're doing communism in a stealth kind of way. Even leftists like Naomi Wolf get it.
If you look at the proposed "Green New Deal" legislation, same thing. And once again, this is from someone who's pretty much in favor of "democractic socialism". See the Daily Clout Youtube channel for details.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 01-14-2021 at 08:33 PM..
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Any decent country has its citizens pay in to the pot so that the money is there when/if they need it. They may never need it or they may suddenly need it desperately. And most people wouldn't throw away their Medicare that they paid into. We want to help our neighbors, our fellow Americans. Yes, we want the cheats weeded out and we all agree on that. But social programs are beneficial and an essential part of a decent, caring country.
