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Old 05-21-2021, 09:28 AM
 
10,609 posts, read 5,582,770 times
Reputation: 18889

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmusic29 View Post
Inflation increases have greatly outpaced wage increases
Untrue.

Moreover, don't forget that wages are only part of total compensation. Non-monetary benefits are a significant portion of total compensation, and the value of those non-monetary benefits has increased much faster than the rate of inflation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmusic29 View Post
Social mobility rankings are quite low in the US, 2nd lowest only to the UK in the developed world.
Economic mobility in the USA is excellent. People can and do move among each of the income quintiles and wealth quintiles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmusic29 View Post
I don't blame people if they get exhausted from working 40 hours a week and barely have anything left over, if at all, at the end of the month.
Working 40 hours a week is hardly even trying. Throughout my career in Silicon Valley, everyone I worked with always worked at least 60 hours/week.
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Old 05-21-2021, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,399 posts, read 9,263,185 times
Reputation: 22758
Yes. Only fans, premium Snapchat, Crypto, meme stocks

These are not the actions of a society who wants to work a 9-5
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Old 05-21-2021, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,399 posts, read 9,263,185 times
Reputation: 22758
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
If you don't have a good work ethic, then you won't get a good job or make a lot of money.

You reap what you sow.
You don’t need a good job to make a lot of money. Ask the women with onlyfans pages.

Or the people who get paid to talk, yes just talk, on YouTube.
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Old 05-21-2021, 09:52 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,644 posts, read 57,702,312 times
Reputation: 46095
Work, is only one of many ethics / value sets that are being redefined worldwide, often led by USA film / media industry.

As an employer, educator, landlord, investor, parent.... There are many costly and time consuming adjustments I need to make to keep my ventures viable. I have never had to mow the lawns for my tenants until I got a few very capable young couples renters. I stick with retirees as possible, since they also don't insist on ESA's that disrupt others and radically
Increases maintenance and insurance and liability risks.

New hires have brought their stuffed animals and unicorns and pets to the workplace.

It's a different world for everyone. I never left work early or even on time for my entire career. 60+ hr weeks and 20 hr commutes (unpaid) were expected. OT in hourly roles was mandatory. Not happening anymore. Even the retiree workers at health club insist you are out 15 min before closing, and they are locking and leaving right behind you.

Entitlement.... The new normal.
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Old 05-21-2021, 10:32 AM
 
261 posts, read 187,537 times
Reputation: 711
@ Zenstyle

Quote:
Here’s an observation I agree with:
“I don’t get the argument that employers can’t afford to pay $15/hour. That’s the value of labor. If I can’t afford a Porsche, then I can’t buy a Porsche. I don’t get to demand a discount on Porsches. If a business can’t afford labor, that’s on the business, not the labor market.”
Porsche's or anything else. Rebates were illegal for years until POTUS Nixon gave a rebate on income taxes one year. (and as Nixon declared.....when the POTUS does it is isn't illegal) Rebates have been going on since.

But the difference between the worker & the employer is that that same Porsche can be declared capital equipment in the employer's business....using it to wine and dine customers, visit the golf course to talk business with associates there, allowing potential customers to take it for a spin, using it in a civic parade
with magnetic signs that advertise his/her business, etc so that the cost of it is written off the taxes as a cost of business. Granted he may have to pay for the fuel it uses & the upkeep tires, batteries, oil changes etc....but at the end of 5 years it is literally a freebie......and if the mileage is low it can be sold for a good price and that money kept. The worker can't do this if he were to purchase the same Porsche.

As to all the insurances employers purchase that are said to be part of the employees wages. Isn't that considered to be a cost of business and thereby a deduction from the companies taxes ? So many Pro Business types just love pulling the wool over workers eyes with these arguments, knowing that those workers are not educated in these matters. It is little more than a "shell game" played between employers and workers. Employers with good accountants who are schooled in Tax Law channels & schemes they can utilize that most common workers including trades people will never know anything about.

Consider the workers becoming involved in a 401K retirement investment scheme . Once they put money into a government-controlled retirement plan, they no longer control it. The employer and the government control it. Either can change the rules of this retirement plan scheme any time they want. But listen to employers belly ache about the "&^&&*# Government" at every opportunity.

And when they are writing off so much of their business expenses as "deductibles" who is making up those taxes as withheld from their pay check ? No wonder those who go into business for themselves prosper.
If they have a skill or cluster of them, (better some highly specialized skills) a good accountant, & Lawyer (to guide them properly) they won't have to live at the mercy of a company as an employee. And any employee can start a small business on the side after work that will allow them to supplement their income.
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Old 05-21-2021, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,022 posts, read 7,173,057 times
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LOL with all the "things were better in my day" posts. Maybe you guys are not old enough to remember the Sixties when people thought the youth had gone soft.
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Old 05-21-2021, 11:24 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
34,911 posts, read 31,023,226 times
Reputation: 47270
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
Working 40 hours a week is hardly even trying. Throughout my career in Silicon Valley, everyone I worked with always worked at least 60 hours/week.
That's because many tech company employees are heavily vested in, financially and perhaps emotionally, in the success of the product or services of the company. Many of them care.

It's simply not going to make any difference where I'm at if I work 42 hours or 60 hours weekly. There won't be any change to my paycheck. Even if I work 60, there will always be more work or projects to do. You're never "done." I'm not going to get a larger bonus for going the extra mile.

I care to the point of doing a good job while I'm there, but I have a lot of interests outside of work. I'll probably never make 1%er money, but I'm fine with that.
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Old 05-21-2021, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,588 posts, read 2,521,025 times
Reputation: 4188
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I disagree with most of that it's mostly finger pointing and excuse making.

That said your point about service industry jobs needs to called out. Service industry jobs are odd hours due to the nature of the work - maybe you can figure out how to run a bar with 8-5 hours. Also to a great degree SI workers are treated poorly because they are overwhelmingly not drug tested and users working in SI jobs have almost no good alternatives.
1. In most states workers who work more than 30 hours per week have to be given benefits for full time workers. Well of course the job creators of our great nation can't have that. So it's not a case of figuring out how to cover the schedule, that part is easy. Service industries purposely keep hours low so as never to risk going over the 30 hour FTE cap. THAT is why you have so many people working odd hours. It has nothing to do with the nature of the work. You can run a bar just like an aerospace plant or office.

2. SI workers are treated poorly because they usually don't start out with a leg up in life. The majority of national chains do drug testing to shield themselves from liability. My children all work in the service industry. One works at a pharmacy, one works at Amazon and the other just got a job at Subway. All of them were drug tested. Most franchisees for the fast food industry drug test and nearly all retail drug test as a term of employment. Weed doesn't matter anymore in Arizona for most employers, but certian employers do ban any drug use. The pharmacy where my son works is a very draconian workplace because he works with CII chemical substances.

My son is a Pharmacy Technician and he does okay at 15 dollars and hour, but he is always getting 28-29 hours a week. So he is on my health insurance because he does not met FTE requirements to recieve benefits. He does not go to school so his hours are completely random and I can see it affects him greatly. He is thinking of switching to Amazon warehouse work. My oldest daughter works at an Amazon distro center for 17/hr, but she dosen't have health insurance because Amazon gives her 28 hours one week then 38 hours the next then 20 the next. because again, if your average hours per week is below 30 you aren't considered full time and therefore in the great boondogle state of AZ is not entitled to actual benefits beyond coupons and teledoc.

My children do have alternatives, but the only reason they do is because they went to the best schools, had an engineer father and real estate manager who are both college educated and do well. But if they didn't have me paying for their health insurance and housing 2 of them they'd be screwed on their own.

I think more people need to be aware of the plight of si workers and the state laws that help companies save money while screwing workers.

"Well just go get another job not in a service industry." My son waited 4 months of mental tests, personality tests, in-person interviews, pee tests, fingerprinting, just to be hired at a pharmacy, my daughter a grueling 2 months trying to finally start at Amazon. Even stupid Subway had a lengthy online only personality exam and mental agility exam with math. SUBWAY!

Last edited by AndyAMG; 05-21-2021 at 01:44 PM..
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Old 05-21-2021, 01:43 PM
 
26,176 posts, read 21,449,749 times
Reputation: 22766
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
Untrue.

Moreover, don't forget that wages are only part of total compensation. Non-monetary benefits are a significant portion of total compensation, and the value of those non-monetary benefits has increased much faster than the rate of inflation.



Economic mobility in the USA is excellent. People can and do move among each of the income quintiles and wealth quintiles.



Working 40 hours a week is hardly even trying. Throughout my career in Silicon Valley, everyone I worked with always worked at least 60 hours/week.
This mind set is always amusing to me especially when said person is sitting on a high seven to 8 figure investment account balance. One in part because it partially ignores his corporate tax attorney wife’s contributions(at least partially IMO), it also ignore that a large portion of the population typically can’t work 40 hour weeks if they wanted to as evidenced by the fact that not many countries if any average 60 hour weeks, let along 50 weeks and a lot or should I say the majority average under 40 hour weeks. Someone is disconnected from reality
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Old 05-21-2021, 03:19 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,008 posts, read 2,259,919 times
Reputation: 2147
Americans are actually working more hours then most people in other countries. https://bluewatercredit.com/american...vity-vacation/
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