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Old 09-03-2021, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
13,715 posts, read 12,456,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
As long as you are allowed in the banking system. Billions are not worldwide. You are looking at this through a middle class American lens. You will never get involved in crypto expect by default as more services are run on blockchain. You won't profit from any of this, you will just pay to use it.

Thank you for keeping the prices low so I can keep buying along with the rest of the world.
Sorry, still not getting this. How is crypto different? As to "allowed into the banking system," most of the third world uses phone based banking.
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Old 09-03-2021, 11:38 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,221,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
Sorry, still not getting this. How is crypto different? As to "allowed into the banking system," most of the third world uses phone based banking.
Many use their phone but they aren't using the banking system. Like in Africa, many use M-Pesa phone minutes.

Millions in the US are excluded from banking due to ChexSystems. They are forced to stand in line at Walmart to pay bills, buy expensive prepaid cards, cash checks for 7-15% fees.

https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/ec...nked-countries
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Old 09-03-2021, 11:56 AM
 
5,907 posts, read 4,437,936 times
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What does one have to do to be “excluded” from the banking system in the U.S? I ask mostly rhetorically because I know why people get black listed and usually it revolves around abuse and shady behavior.

I had savings account as a child, and I remember getting checking and savings accounts at Chase when I had basically zero money when I moved out. I got student credit cards when I had negative net worth and my only job was revolving internships.



And as far as the rest of the world being unbanked…poor people don’t have banking needs because they don’t have money…I’m not sure how crypto solves that. If large swathes of the world started to actually have money, the banking would rise up to support it…
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Old 09-03-2021, 12:08 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,221,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
What does one have to do to be “excluded” from the banking system in the U.S? I ask mostly rhetorically because I know why people get black listed and usually it revolves around abuse and shady behavior.

I had savings account as a child, and I remember getting checking and savings accounts at Chase when I had basically zero money when I moved out. I got student credit cards when I had negative net worth and my only job was revolving internships.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I bet you are a white, middle to upper middle class person? Chexsystems slams people for bounced checks if they get behind enough. I've known people who have had this happen.

Another issue are immigrants. Plus a lot of immigrants don't trust banks.
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Old 09-03-2021, 12:12 PM
 
5,907 posts, read 4,437,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I bet you are a white, middle to upper middle class person? Chexsystems slams people for bounced checks if they get behind enough. I've known people who have had this happen.

Another issue are immigrants. Plus a lot of immigrants don't trust banks.
When I was 18? No.

But then again, I didn’t “bounce a bunch of checks”. In other words, commit long term fraud spending money you know you don’t have and costing the bank money.
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Old 09-03-2021, 12:16 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
When I was 18? No.

But then again, I didn’t “bounce a bunch of checks”. In other words, commit long term fraud spending money you know you don’t have and costing the bank money.
Life is hard for a lot of people.
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Old 09-03-2021, 12:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Life is hard for a lot of people.
My family was homeless at age 16. I lived in the rust belt and graduated high school into the Great Recession in the hardest hit state in an area dependent on the hardest hit industry. I’ve been around the FBIs most violent cities where the biggest “business” around is liquor stores, cash advance stores, and the like. I’m fully aware of what hardship can happen to people. No one gets cut off from the banking system until they prove they can’t use the banking system.


But I’m not sure how bitcoins are going to help folks without money since they don’t have money to buy bitcoins…and even if that grants them access to banking…their poor behavior in a variety of ways will still be harming them.
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Old 09-03-2021, 12:34 PM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,221,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
My family was homeless at age 16. I lived in the rust belt and graduated high school into the Great Recession in the hardest hit state in an area dependent on the hardest hit industry. I’ve been around the FBIs most violent cities where the biggest “business” around is liquor stores, cash advance stores, and the like. I’m fully aware of what hardship can happen to people. No one gets cut off from the banking system until they prove they can’t use the banking system.


But I’m not sure how bitcoins are going to help folks without money since they don’t have money to buy bitcoins…and even if that grants them access to banking…their poor behavior in a variety of ways will still be harming them.
I would think you would have more compassion. One of the biggest causes of "poor behavior" is medical spending. Many people are so bad that they sacrifice bank profits to help a sick child. Good thing they were punished for this.

Most have income, they are just stuck in a loop. Being poor is expensive and time consuming. With peer to peer transactions they don't need to wait in line at several locations to do what we do on auto pay. They can buy crypto from an ATM and soon pay bills, top up their cell phones, cash checks all on one kiosk. This will save a massive amount of time and fees. Plus, if some get lucky, they may keep a little that appreciates, giving the poor access to startup type returns which in out current system are for "accredited investors" only.
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Old 09-03-2021, 02:05 PM
 
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I’m not sure how what i said has anything to do with my compassion. You have no idea what I do or don’t do for others.

But I do know, there’s no compassion to be found in you telling others how they should lend out their money.

And I’m not sure how bitcoin is going to show compassion and suddenly provide funding to people with sick children.

It has such a scammy tone to it to act like poor folks are best served by entering into speculative asset classes as well. As has been shown many times, there can also be massive spikes down, which would lose them money for weeks or months that they can barely survive on now.

Last edited by Thatsright19; 09-03-2021 at 02:15 PM..
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Old 09-03-2021, 02:24 PM
 
1,969 posts, read 676,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
...The dollars are my property, not that of the fed.
  • Finite supply. The government cannot inflate (create new units). Inflation is a tax on your savings and through the roof right now.
    But nor are they backed by any collateral. Gold, as an example, at least means that there's a bar of gold sitting in a London vault. In any case, my savings are there only to allow me to weather rainy days...to replace a roof or fix a car...
  • You can self-custody and it's non-censorable. Cheap and almost free transactions. I don't need the banks to allow me to wire my own money.
    Then how are the transactions processed/paid for? Banking for me at a retail bank is "almost free" as long as I don't overdraw
Bitcoin is backed by Proof of Work. You take energy (used by computers to solve mining algorithm) and convert it into Bitcoin. So it's backed by energy.
The US dollar is backed by anything since it is completely off the gold standard. That's why it's lost over 95% of it's purchasing power.

ACH and stuff like Zelle don't settle immediately so while they are cheap/free, you don't have access to the funds immediately (and you have a daily limit). If you want to exceed that limit, you have to use wire services (which is over $20 and slow). In addition, you are limited to how much of your own money you can withdraw by the bank.
Bitcoin solves all of this.
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