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Old 11-02-2021, 07:51 PM
 
2,747 posts, read 1,782,581 times
Reputation: 4438

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Quote:
Originally Posted by c2bp View Post
just a few months ago "red hot” economy was believed to be unstoppable, but latest gdp data shows us that we will be lucky if fiscal stimulus effects will last until the end of the year. Despite historic levels of government intervention ( helicopter money) the us economy only grew 2% in the third quarter.

What happened???? Where is this booming economy?.....labor shortage??? Inflation???
What a joke.

Remember...... No real economic growth will ever be possible until we go thru deflation and depression, until we destroy all bad debt that we have accumulated since 2001, until we deflate all asset prices and pop all bubbles and economic cancers that we have created.

Learn from mother nature, nothing can grow during the non-growth season, in the fall and during winter. This applies to economy as well. No matter what the fed does, no matter how much money we steal from the future to spend it today real economic growth will be impossible.

Happy halloween
good luck!!!
OZ never DID give NOTHING to the TIN MAN

 
Old 11-03-2021, 02:47 AM
 
Location: HONOLULU
1,014 posts, read 479,768 times
Reputation: 333
Is the stimulus pay forever? I think it is. Until you get a job. So I'd bet on getting more. If you are there too.
 
Old 11-03-2021, 02:05 PM
 
2,326 posts, read 959,712 times
Reputation: 1403
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope48 View Post
Having a depression so you can have high growth afterwards to catch back up to where you were before the depression is stupid. You are assuming also that in such an event the current system of governance would survive and that a high growth rebound would actually happen. Plenty of historical examples of that not happening.

The point of stimulus is put out the fire so the neighborhood or the entire city doesn't burn down.

He's right though, and not in the sense that it's preferable to go through a depression, but the fact is we need to get rid of the unproductive, bad debt in order to get back to a road of prosperity.

Otherwise we're just sweeping it under the rug, kicking the can down the road, or whatever other idiom you want to use to say we're delaying the inevitable.


To continue with your metaphor, you are putting out some of the fire, perhaps putting up a temporary firewall, but you are not completely putting the fire out. Instead, you are adding fuel to the flames for something bigger to flare up down the road.

The "fire" of 2008 was never put out and is rearing its ugly head.
 
Old 11-03-2021, 10:53 PM
 
1,766 posts, read 1,223,464 times
Reputation: 2904
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesclues5 View Post
He's right though, and not in the sense that it's preferable to go through a depression, but the fact is we need to get rid of the unproductive, bad debt in order to get back to a road of prosperity.

Otherwise we're just sweeping it under the rug, kicking the can down the road, or whatever other idiom you want to use to say we're delaying the inevitable.


To continue with your metaphor, you are putting out some of the fire, perhaps putting up a temporary firewall, but you are not completely putting the fire out. Instead, you are adding fuel to the flames for something bigger to flare up down the road.

The "fire" of 2008 was never put out and is rearing its ugly head.
I’m glad you get it.
 
Old 11-04-2021, 05:00 AM
 
124 posts, read 90,160 times
Reputation: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
Just a few months ago "RED HOT” economy was believed to be unstoppable, but latest GDP data shows us that we will be lucky if fiscal stimulus effects will last until the end of the year. Despite historic levels of government intervention ( helicopter money) the US economy only grew 2% in the third quarter.

What happened???? Where is this BOOMING ECONOMY?.....Labor Shortage??? Inflation???
What a joke.

Remember...... NO REAL ECONOMIC GROWTH WILL EVER BE POSSIBLE UNTIL WE GO THRU DEFLATION AND DEPRESSION, until we destroy all bad debt that we have accumulated since 2001, until we deflate all asset prices and pop all bubbles and ECONOMIC CANCERS that we have created.

Learn from Mother Nature, nothing can grow during the non-growth season, in the Fall and during Winter. This applies to economy as well. No matter what the FED does, no matter how much money we steal from the future to spend it today real economic growth will be impossible.

Happy Halloween
Good Luck!!!

There are other methods of stimulating the economy than fiscal stimulus. They could easily optimize the pension saving process like they did in the UK. It led to a decade of sustained economic growth until the Coronavirus hit. See the article below and the paper below that which provides the evidence of the success of the technique.


[Mod cut: advertising/self promoting]

Last edited by elnina; 11-10-2021 at 07:48 PM..
 
Old 11-04-2021, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,913 posts, read 3,376,644 times
Reputation: 8629
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
Just a few months ago "RED HOT” economy was believed to be unstoppable, but latest GDP data shows us that we will be lucky if fiscal stimulus effects will last until the end of the year. Despite historic levels of government intervention ( helicopter money) the US economy only grew 2% in the third quarter.

What happened???? Where is this BOOMING ECONOMY?.....Labor Shortage??? Inflation???
What a joke.

Remember...... NO REAL ECONOMIC GROWTH WILL EVER BE POSSIBLE UNTIL WE GO THRU DEFLATION AND DEPRESSION, until we destroy all bad debt that we have accumulated since 2001, until we deflate all asset prices and pop all bubbles and ECONOMIC CANCERS that we have created.

Learn from Mother Nature, nothing can grow during the non-growth season, in the Fall and during Winter. This applies to economy as well. No matter what the FED does, no matter how much money we steal from the future to spend it today real economic growth will be impossible.

Happy Halloween
Good Luck!!!
Stimulus is not meant to produce a lasting effect - it was designed to soften a recession and prevent deflation and depression caused by COVID. The stock markets are booming, lack of workers, addicted to being paid to not wok are what is holding back the "economy".

You do not need deflation and depression to get growth - growth is normal economic activity, that is what the Fed and Treasury aim for.

You talk about specifically "until we destroy all bad debt that we have accumulated since 2001, until we deflate all asset prices and pop all bubbles and ECONOMIC CANCERS that we have created." Maybe you haven't paid attention - we actually had an economic depression and deflation in 2007/8/9 - why did that not "pop all the bubbles" and fix the "bad debt we have accumulated since 2001" - at least the debt between 2001 and 2007 - the 2007-9 recession was actually caused by a housing bubble and bad debt.

The only significant depression in the last 150 years was the one 1930-33, about 90 years ago - seems like US has done fine without a real depression.
 
Old 11-04-2021, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,732 posts, read 12,808,029 times
Reputation: 19298
Stimulus feeds 2 of the federal governments worst behaviors...

1) The addiction to greed, & self-enrichment..the need to spend, even when we have to borrow, or print Monopoly money to do so. Stimulus spending leverages up power to remain in office, & to obtain kickbacks from those the politicians give financial favors to....like 10% for the "Big Guy".

The downside of this is the interest payments on all this accumulated federal debt is now up to $600B/year. We spend $800B/year on national defense. Also, a disproportionate amount of all the stimulus spending, finds its way into the pockets of the top 1%, which widens the income, and wage, gaps.

2) Stimulus takes more money out of the private sector, while the public sector gorges its appetite on Trillions of taxpayer dollars.

The downside of this is that the public sector produces NOTHING. It adds no investment into truly free markets. It might add some cash into the pay-to-play scheme, but that hurts the free market economy. Its the private sector that produces GDP growth, so taking money away from the private sector in the form of taxes, and giving it to the public sector, and their 3rd party kickback pals, makes it harder to achieve high GDP growth. Its like having an 8 cyliner engine, but only 4 cylinders have spark plugs in them to power the engine of growth. The other 4 cylinders are dead weight.

I know this stuff is boring, but its why they keep playing the stimulus card over and over again...both parties.
 
Old 11-04-2021, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,574,122 times
Reputation: 22639
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
I’m glad you get it.
Said the guy to the padded cell next door...
 
Old 11-06-2021, 06:08 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,218 posts, read 2,457,532 times
Reputation: 5066
We were able to "get away" with the last stimulus binge after the '08 crash.. This time, we will just overdose on stimulus, and kill the dollar.
 
Old 11-06-2021, 07:33 AM
 
10,864 posts, read 6,478,124 times
Reputation: 7959
I hope we have all learned a lesson,we need to save more ,I mean more than $400 for the entire hoursehold,it may not be enough to last a year,but should take care of 3 months of expenses.
3 months worth of saving for basic needs-rent,utilities and food.
keeping interest rate at zero is not a way to motivate us to save,but to borrow more.
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