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Old 12-18-2021, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Berkeley Neighborhood, Denver, CO USA
17,681 posts, read 29,630,546 times
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Is this similar to **** shaming?
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Old 12-18-2021, 11:39 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,594 posts, read 1,402,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
I expected that sort of response. But a car that I sold recently, fetched a substantially higher price, than that which I paid, over a decade ago. A house that I sold recently, unfortunately garnered a lower price, than what I paid some 20 years ago. Remind me again - which is the one made of straw, and which of bricks?
People are always coming up with rare exceptions.

A car that was hit by a meteorite in the 90s had its value increased by the damage and is still famous.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/201...car/730963001/

What is your explanation?
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Old 12-19-2021, 06:57 AM
 
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At least in urban/inner city areas, IMO, poor areas seem to be run down/not kept up -- AND have higher crime.....and vice versa. High crime areas tend to be run down and poor.

I have also marveled that homes with a dilapidated porch. or crumbling steps or wood on the window, will have a satellite dish on the roof and an Escalade parked out front. Granted, the car parked in front of a house may not belong to the person in that particular house. But, to see any Escalades, Cadillacs or Range Rovers, Lexuses, or Infinitis on that block was mind blowing to me.

I'd choose driving a (reliable) beater car all day long and live in a safe/more expensive neighborhood any day.

What good is it to live in a dump -- but have an expensive car in a crime prone area...where you're not even safe in broad daylight, and you're likely to get robbed, the house or car broken into?

But, clearly, people do it.
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Old 12-19-2021, 01:23 PM
 
Location: moved
13,583 posts, read 9,614,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
People are always coming up with rare exceptions.

A car that was hit by a meteorite in the 90s had its value increased by the damage and is still famous.

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/201...car/730963001/

What is your explanation?
My explanation is that the quirks of personal experience overwhelm statistical evidence, even if we’re of a scientific bent and understand the basics of probability and economics, and of causality vs. correlation. If my parents were chain-smokers who nevertheless made it into their 90s, while an uncle who was an avid runner collapsed at 45, then would there not be ample reason for me to pontificate how running is a dangerous indulgence, while smoking promotes longevity? Granted, this example is odd and unlikely; I mention it more for wry humor than for honest advice.

But consider this….

By “poverty” or “the hood”, we generally think of intergenerational poverty… persons who don’t value education, who have kids in inauspicious and unprepared circumstances, who raise said kids poorly (in all senses of the term) and so propitiate the cycle. By “wealth” we mean persons dedicated to family-life, who are raised by responsible parents, who duly pursue an education and who enter remunerative careers, who marry before having children, and who then raise those children in an environment of abundance and a value-set consistent with habits of money-management, long-term planning and intergenerational thriving. Yes?

But an exception is the child-free, who have no intrinsic reason to reside in a good school district and who after a certain point, do not forsake a better future via more indulgence in the present. Such a one, might intentionally choose to reside in “the hood”, saving money on rent and so on. Our calculation of what is upstanding and what’s not, is so heavily colored by the supposing that all adults are parents or parents-in-waiting, that we are blind to alternatives, where alternative value-sets are not a perverse and dissolute indulgence, but on the contrary, make perfect sense.

As to my own example, I have a smattering of competence in used-cars, but none in houses or neighborhoods. To misjudge the fortunes of a town, an enclave, a dwelling, is only too likely, for a novice like me. Which brings us to…

Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
...I'd choose driving a (reliable) beater car all day long and live in a safe/more expensive neighborhood any day.

What good is it to live in a dump -- but have an expensive car in a crime prone area...where you're not even safe in broad daylight, and you're likely to get robbed, the house or car broken into?
If I rent a rundown hovel in a neighborhood of blight, then I save those precious shekels, for the things that matter more.
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Old 12-20-2021, 08:24 PM
 
9,344 posts, read 6,901,027 times
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Rims worth more than the car or the trailer the live in.



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Old 12-21-2021, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
13,649 posts, read 12,301,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt View Post
LOL. Pretty funny.

I am just genuinely curious, not judging. Like down here, everyone has a smart phone though average pay is only $400 a month. Inquiring minds want to know!
Where you're at, is a cell phone a key piece of the banking infrastructure? I understand that in much of Africa many/most banking and financial transactions are done with a phone to avoid having to carry cash in an area that often doesn't have physical banks nearby and where cash will make one a target of criminals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Interesting, how lavish spending on one's car, as source of pride or status or social-standing of whatever sort, is panned as dubious and daft proposition. While doing the same to one's house, is regarded as being upstanding and wise. Why is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
I expected that sort of response. But a car that I sold recently, fetched a substantially higher price, than that which I paid, over a decade ago. A house that I sold recently, unfortunately garnered a lower price, than what I paid some 20 years ago. Remind me again - which is the one made of straw, and which of bricks?
I would posit that turning a profit on a car requires a level of sophistication as well as unique circumstances that make it an unlikely scenario for many. Is a parent going to be able to turn a profit on a car with three rows? Is someone that drives even 25% less than the national average going to be able to turn a profit? No, after 20 years the car would have 200K+ miles on it.
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Old 12-21-2021, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
14,208 posts, read 14,601,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi View Post
Most of those folks are working.
There are some pretty interesting studies that show how the poor and working class use their money is a little different from middle class and upper class. With whatever discretionary income they have, they tend to spend it for living in the moment - giving to others more (percentage-wise), spending it on short-term enjoyment like a party, tickets for a show, a phone, an outfit, and yes, cars. They spend a lot less on things like education and savings/retirement/investment, but a bigger chunk of their pay goes toward housing and utilities.
I have always said those that get ahead, think about tomorrow and their actions of today. Those that do not get ahead, only think about the now.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,210 posts, read 84,094,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
When one lives in a poor area, even a ghetto, driving a nice, newer car helps the people feel better about their situation, and to them it's worth the hassle of struggling to make the payments. Car dealers have always been able to give loans to people who can't really afford it, they just go with a high enough interest rate to cover the cost of repossessing it later.
Exactly. They don't see that they will ever be able to afford their own home, but they can drive a nice car. It's also a matter of perspective and how you were raised. My parents would never buy a new car because "it depreciates as soon as you drive it off the lot", so they bought newer used cars, always. They were Depression kids and frugal but they had a house in a nice, safe town where they had both grown up.

They belonged to a church that had a "sister church" in a poor neighborhood in a rundown city nearby. When their pastor was away, the pastor from that church would come and preach, and he always took the opportunity to remind the suburban church folks how poor his own church members were and ask for donations.

But, this pastor drove a current model Lexus, and that was remarked upon by a number of the church members, particularly the older set that made of the bulk of the congregation. In the eyes of the people he was preaching at, to whom it was a no-brainer that real estate is better way to spend your money than on a vehicle that will end up in the junkpile eventually, he had no business asking for money for his church when it looked as though they were wasting it either on too high a salary or providing a more expensive vehicle than the pastor of a poor church needed. Their own church provided their pastor with a car, too, but it was nothing fancy, usually a used vehicle donated by a member.

There was no right or wrong here, just two very different perceptions of how money should be used.

In another instance of vehicles and the poor, my daughter worked for a while in a bank in Albany, New York. It was a regular occurrence that on Mondays, customers from "the hood" would come into the bank enraged because the money in their checking account was on hold. The reason was that they had rented a vehicle for the weekend to go out clubbing, but they didn't have credit cards so they used a debit card. The car rental company would run a $500 hold on the debit card to protect themselves, and it often took several days until the actual price of the returned rental would come to the checking account and the balance would be freed up. There was nothing the bank could do about this, of course, but the customers didn't have the sense to know that and would come in and be abusive to the staff because they could not access their money.

My daughter asked one of the other tellers, who lived in that neighborhood, why some people kept spending hundreds renting a car instead of saving to get one, even a cheap beater. Her coworker said, "Oh, they do have beater cars. They want something upscale to drive to the club to impress women or their friends, so they rent something fancy for the weekend."

Those of us who see our vehicles as transportation, not a status symbol, have a hard time understanding that mindset, but we have to acknowledge that it exists.
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Old 12-23-2021, 01:56 AM
 
Location: moved
13,583 posts, read 9,614,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
I have always said those that get ahead, think about tomorrow and their actions of today. Those that do not get ahead, only think about the now.
Certainly, the correlation is high. But the "thinking ahead", while fine and unassailable in the abstract, isn't so clear once we consider the details. A house in a nice neighborhood is maybe an investment... or maybe an indulgence. Buying such a house, am I really thinking ahead, or am I just scratching an itch? On the other hand, was the enthusiast who bought Porsches and Supras and Datsun Zs 20 years ago, just thinking about "the now"... or on the contrary, thinking ahead?

We've seen in this thread, clownish videos of porcine sedans on idiotically huge wheels. Hard not to laugh at that, no? I too am laughing, especially if those cars were bought new. But just the same, the cars in question could have been bought at the bottom of their depreciation curves. Remember those silly slammed Impalas that jump, on hydraulics? They looked stupid 30 years ago. Maybe they still look stupid, but I invite you to examine on Craigslist, their worth now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Those of us who see our vehicles as transportation, not a status symbol, have a hard time understanding that mindset, but we have to acknowledge that it exists.
In a complementary way, some of us see our domcile as wood and stucco box into which we crawl every evening to sleep. It reflects neither our persons nor our values, nor is it aligned with how we wish to be perceived by others. To expend precious funds on said box, is a misallocation of capital. But a fine sporting machine on wheels - or a set of such machines - very much comports with our sense of self, our recreation and our passions in life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
I would posit that turning a profit on a car requires a level of sophistication as well as unique circumstances that make it an unlikely scenario for many. Is a parent going to be able to turn a profit on a car with three rows? Is someone that drives even 25% less than the national average going to be able to turn a profit? No, after 20 years the car would have 200K+ miles on it.
I've had no trouble turning vehicular ventures into decent rate of return, or at least, enough to cover my habits. The house on the other hand was an abject failure, a source of embarrassment and a grievous blight against my self-perception as an investor. Perhaps I lacked sophistication on the house? Likely so. But then, would it not make sense, to play to our strengths?

To your other point, the constraints of parenthood change the calculation entirely. Were I to have had children, I would have prioritized a safe and prosperous neighborhood, where schools are good, sidewalks are clean, traffic is calm and the air is readily breathable. As a child-free person, I seek instead some combination of minimal costs and maximal freedoms.

Once again, when we think of poverty, or condemn the poor for their short-sightedness or lack of strategic acumen, mostly we accuse them of hamfisted and benighted parenting-choices, be it having kids at too young of an age, or outside of marriage, or not paying attention to their algebra homework. These kids, being raised in inauspicious and ill-favored circumstances, go on to lead disadvantaged life, and so on, to the next generation. But what if this generational continuity ends with one’s own self?
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Old 12-23-2021, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,360 posts, read 9,225,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChileSauceCritic View Post
If you can afford a $250K Lamborghini you don't have to do anything to make it stick out as only 10% of the population can afford one, but if you can only afford a used 8 year old Honda Civic that looks like a million other used 8 year old Honda Civics the only way to make it stand out is to slowly transform it into a supped up street racing car.
Not exactly, there's plenty of crappy cars with only a loud exhaust that do a good job of standing out in the crowd.
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