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Old 03-13-2022, 08:37 PM
 
46,968 posts, read 26,011,859 times
Reputation: 29458

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Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
Cool story bro, but I think you missed the point that Dane was making.
The point is that people on this thread, and it would appear employers in general, are complaining that they cannot find anyone willing to take their wages. In the capitalistic society we all claim to want to live in, the only option is for said employer to increase the wages offered in order to attract the desired talent. If the number that attracts potential workers is $60 per hour, well then the market has spoken. All the wailing about whether people "deserve" that rate is completely irrelevant. It's not the workers complaining right now, and if they were to complain about wages being too low, the answer they will receive is to either improve their skill sets or quit whining. The shoes on the other foot now. So if employers are complaining about not being able to find workers then they can either improve their wages being offered or, quit whining.
Neatly put. There are two actors (at least) in the market - buyer and seller. Right now, the labor market has moved slightly towards a seller's market. Simple as that.
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Old 03-13-2022, 08:41 PM
 
46,968 posts, read 26,011,859 times
Reputation: 29458
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrat View Post
The only thing that as changed is that power has shifted - very slightly - to the worker. And I'm sure the powers that be are working very hard to get that stopped.

Hence why our southern border is wide open...
And why the people who employ the undocumented workforce aren't punished. Capitalism needs a pool of unemployed workers.
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Old 03-13-2022, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Berkeley Neighborhood, Denver, CO USA
17,712 posts, read 29,839,573 times
Reputation: 33311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
McDonald's in Denmark pays $22, and the Big Macs cost the same.
Numbeo.com says Big Mac is 27% more in Danmark.
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Old 03-13-2022, 09:33 PM
 
Location: on the good ship Lollipop
740 posts, read 473,899 times
Reputation: 2645
A few months ago I was volunteering at a county site (my church) that handed out covid-tests for free. Alongside me were paid workers that a company hired via a contract with the county to run the site. I am in my fifties. The paid workers were all in their 20-30s. I got an earful of their conversations with one another at first, and then eventually, they actually spoke to me.... A microcosm of their current working/living situations, and their hopes/dreams/goals.

Some no longer wished to work for 'the man' in low wage jobs and had quit their previous jobs... some had moved in with their parents to save... some had actually set up LLCs to start their own businesses and were saving their pay for startup costs ... some were setting up a business plan to open up their own airbnb and were trying to get funding from local county/state grants... some were buying a new car (to them) to start to uber... some were saving up for community college... some were renting a house along with others to have rock bottom living expenses to allow them to pursue bar-tending courses or nursing degrees... one guy even quit his previous job because he decided that the job was detrimental to his mental health, ie his feelings of self worth bc of how his employer felt free to yell at him- he said to me, 'I am not a worm, why should he speak/yell at me as if I'm a worm?'

Different stories and different plans and the one commonality was that they no longer wished to work at MickyDees/equivalent for low wages... 'no thanks' to abuse of employers and they were WORKING/PLANNING to free themselves from what they saw as a trap that older generations had bequeathed to them, and which they wanted no part of.

Of course, I have no idea if they will succeed or fail in their plans. I don't know how determined or resilient these kids are. But I do admire them for their willingness to think outside the box, which lets be honest, might have relegated them to continue along the unmerry path of low wages and living conditions into which they were born-- not chosen-- born.

Why should we want our current crop of young people to suffer the harsh indignities that we may have had to endure? This is an extreme example, but I read this years ago and it has stuck with me... Mothers in the far off places where the practice of female genitalia disfigurement survives say, when questioned, 'why do you allow this?' Because I had this done to me... why shouldn't she have it done to her...

Lastly, in what world does it make sense that Jeff Bezos makes 205 million dollars a day? I don't care if he is Jesus Christ come down from the cross--- it will never make sense to me, never. No argument will ever sway me that these billionaires have a right to that kind of money while many of their workers make peanuts and struggle to have enough to eat/survive/be housed.

So I wish these young people well in their aspirations to make better lives for themselves at the cost of labor shortages.
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Old 03-14-2022, 08:19 AM
 
1,108 posts, read 529,491 times
Reputation: 2534
Quote:
Originally Posted by herringbone View Post
A few months ago I was volunteering at a county site (my church) that handed out covid-tests for free. Alongside me were paid workers that a company hired via a contract with the county to run the site. I am in my fifties. The paid workers were all in their 20-30s. I got an earful of their conversations with one another at first, and then eventually, they actually spoke to me.... A microcosm of their current working/living situations, and their hopes/dreams/goals.

Some no longer wished to work for 'the man' in low wage jobs and had quit their previous jobs... some had moved in with their parents to save... some had actually set up LLCs to start their own businesses and were saving their pay for startup costs ... some were setting up a business plan to open up their own airbnb and were trying to get funding from local county/state grants... some were buying a new car (to them) to start to uber... some were saving up for community college... some were renting a house along with others to have rock bottom living expenses to allow them to pursue bar-tending courses or nursing degrees... one guy even quit his previous job because he decided that the job was detrimental to his mental health, ie his feelings of self worth bc of how his employer felt free to yell at him- he said to me, 'I am not a worm, why should he speak/yell at me as if I'm a worm?'

Different stories and different plans and the one commonality was that they no longer wished to work at MickyDees/equivalent for low wages... 'no thanks' to abuse of employers and they were WORKING/PLANNING to free themselves from what they saw as a trap that older generations had bequeathed to them, and which they wanted no part of.

Of course, I have no idea if they will succeed or fail in their plans. I don't know how determined or resilient these kids are. But I do admire them for their willingness to think outside the box, which lets be honest, might have relegated them to continue along the unmerry path of low wages and living conditions into which they were born-- not chosen-- born.

Why should we want our current crop of young people to suffer the harsh indignities that we may have had to endure? This is an extreme example, but I read this years ago and it has stuck with me... Mothers in the far off places where the practice of female genitalia disfigurement survives say, when questioned, 'why do you allow this?' Because I had this done to me... why shouldn't she have it done to her...

Lastly, in what world does it make sense that Jeff Bezos makes 205 million dollars a day? I don't care if he is Jesus Christ come down from the cross--- it will never make sense to me, never. No argument will ever sway me that these billionaires have a right to that kind of money while many of their workers make peanuts and struggle to have enough to eat/survive/be housed.

So I wish these young people well in their aspirations to make better lives for themselves at the cost of labor shortages.

first have you ever hired a young person out of college? let me tell you after years for hiring and firing how many cant even fill out a employment app right - cant print or write eligibility, walk in with tats or some damn ring hanging from their nose or eyebrow, college degree in basket weaving or some damn thing and then the first thing they ask when an actual interview happens is what kind of benefits or how much time off do they get!

then if you do hire one you have to spend 6 months or more teaching them how to use a computer or how to show up on time or how to talk to a person in person and not use their fracking thumbs to communicate with your customers without using text.

then after 6 months they want as raise or quit and go to work at a competitor after you have shown them the ropes.

then you ***** about keeping the money YOU EARN LOL what a crock
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Old 03-14-2022, 08:40 AM
 
10,609 posts, read 5,655,496 times
Reputation: 18905
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
It hasn't *really* shifted to the worker, though. It's just that housing is now beyind what the the working and middle classes can afford.
Blame local, state, & federal governments. They have added countless regulations that add as much as $400,000 to the costs (not price) of building a house in some locales. The classic is in some locations, a builder must build, say, a 2-story house to get enough square footage to make the sales price exceed manufacturing costs BUT the local planning commission intentionally restricts building height so as to prevent anything more than 1 story homes to be built. The developer must go hat-in-hand and request a height variance - which will surely be granted if only the developer will commit to non-related things like building a park or bicycle trail or paying for a statue of the Mayor, all for free. The costs of these unrelated projects are included in housing prices, of course.

Last edited by RationalExpectations; 03-14-2022 at 08:52 AM..
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Old 03-14-2022, 08:42 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,585 posts, read 81,243,006 times
Reputation: 57825
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagster View Post
Another factor is the underground economy. When you can make a few hundred a day selling drugs, or your own body, you're not likely to be applying for a 9 to 5.
There are people making more than they did working by posting on Youtube or TikTok, a lucrative pastime, though I suspect not sustainable. There are also those that moved back in with their parents. I don't think we will see the typical graduate working at Target, Starbucks or a restaurant while looking for a real job again. If those jobs cannot be automated it will require more illegals or refugees who are not so picky to come and take them.
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Old 03-14-2022, 09:17 AM
 
37,626 posts, read 46,026,601 times
Reputation: 57241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northrick View Post
Why does everything have to be open all the time? Do you like working late at night and Sundays? Why as a consumer can't you make sure you get your shopping done by 7pm on a weekday? Sure, you might have to plan ahead a bit but it can be done.
What makes you think that I (or anyone for that matter) am finished working by that time??
Do you really think that everyone works the same schedule??
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Old 03-14-2022, 10:46 AM
 
1,766 posts, read 1,224,611 times
Reputation: 2904
Labor shortage is FAKE NEWS. Companies may indeed be posting massive numbers of job openings across the whole economy but they clearly still aren’t paying the market clearing wage right now which had already been a serious and consistent problem long before the 2020 recession. The so-called Great Resignation is actually Great ItsNotRecovery Part 2.

Quitters last year quit because businesses just won't pay up.
Good Luck!
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Old 03-14-2022, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Southern MN
12,047 posts, read 8,433,033 times
Reputation: 44823
How do they survive while they wait for the magic wage?

We had two people in the family who held out for the wages they deserved. Both were educated, one manually skilled, the other a Silicon Valley hotshot. Mama and Papa supported them for decades. They both died young of alcoholism. But they had fun doing it. The rest of the brothers who supported Mom and Pop when the money was gone weren't too pleased.

Some more are down here in Mexico where I am vacationing. They're from all over the world. They "need a break" from how hard their real lives are. They don't show up until the afternoon, expensive clothing starting to look a little tattered. These children of privilege wander in packs, forties in tow, smoking dope, sunburned and complaining about their circumstances.

They cut a wide swath through resort swimming pools and gardens, begging or just outright picking up whatever they fancy until they're kicked out. They stand on the street corners and argue about whose parent they are going to call today for more money since they haven't found that dream job yet. Wink, wink.

I talk to them. They all have pipe dreams of wonderful and benevolent work they are going to do someday.

There's a few , those whose heads are really on askew. But there are others who take jobs they consider beneath them, realizing they have to feed and cloth themself and retain a little self-respect. Daughter started her own business last year just to get rid of the job of riding herd on them.

She's making good money but working her buns off and refuses to take on help under her age group. Says they are more work than they are worth. One, a good worker, newly hired wanted three weeks off for her birthday. When she didn't get it she just didn't show up for three weeks. Others don't show up and don't call in. Others need constant supervision and "momming" for emotional issues. And she lost tons of hours to kids on their cell phones during work hours.

They are out there making ends meet by hook or by crook. If you enable them you will make more.

It's a tragic and scary situation and the majority of people who are affected are good people but values go out the window pretty fast for many when times get tough.
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