Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-16-2022, 09:33 PM
 
19,780 posts, read 18,073,660 times
Reputation: 17268

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ99 View Post
Yep LAISSEZ-FAIRE capitalism whose end goal seeks to destroy competition and charge as much as the market will bare is so much better... LOL We are just at the stage of capitalism where monopolies and oligopolies rule, the medical health care system too. They own govt and use it to prevent competition. After all the Supreme Court ruled corporations are people too so they can donate as much dark money to their minion politicians as necessary.



The real problem is lack of any real competition. Look at the huge chains buying up any potentially profitable hospital or medical group then jacking prices.
Can you name a single monopoly in healthcare?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-17-2022, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
7,646 posts, read 4,596,067 times
Reputation: 12708
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Can you name a single monopoly in healthcare?
For many districts, population limits would contribute to a natural monopoly state, where it would not make sense to have multiple sites. However, beyond that, many places have robust competition. Therein lies the rub. A fully equipped hospital sees reduced economies of scale on significant on key investments.

The investment needed in this business is incredible. Salaries, staffing shifts, medicine and consumable stocks and rotations, facilities, equipment, insurance from all/every type of lawsuit....it's unreal. All for some smooth brained politico to simply announce it's bad....even as those same homo limptus's cast a staggering string of failures in their own hospitals set up for veterans, prisoners and close out several mental institutions altogether. As for development....if it were with the government, we'd still be sawing off limbs civil war style.

The new medicines and machines are expensive. The testing required to appease the government is incredible. No doctor or pharmacist has a chance of a pathway to developing or releasing a drug they develop themselves without significant outside funding. Hundreds of millions of dollars needed to support any new drug platform. Those investors will have to wait for years while their money is tied up in waiting. That makes that money expensive. I need one hell of a payoff on my money if it's going to sit gone for 10 years before I even know if I have a product. The FDA can be sitting for years on product that's already been approved and in regular use overseas.

Look at how fast the covid vaccines were developed and approved. Nobody knows what was more amazing. The first commericially successful deployment of rna based vaccine....or the fact that something got the FDA to actually move quickly.

Now compare it to Sinovax, China's vaccine answer....but the effectiveness is almost nonexistent to the latest strains. The real reason it's doing the harsh lockdowns on the outbreaks when everyone else is opening up is they are sitting with a billion unvaxxed people that think they are vaccinated.

Here in the United States, we have an expectation that if there's advances in medicine, the health care facility will keep pace and be able to provide it....or otherwise be sued. This in turn keeps a market for the very expensive first round of development, which essentially subsidizes the rest of the world in terms of medical equipment, medicine and treatment advances around the world....because politicians here are completely unable to regulate the reality that they control all of the key components that underpin the high costs....and they have kept the decision to high cost because to not do so would cost lives....and that's messiness they would rather keep in the private sector. Let the providers and insurers fight it out with patient expectations.

That is why we have high costs, and to have some ingratiates who are elected on bumper sticker slogans come forth....angry about healthcare costs and using the tools at their disposal to rebel rouse the population is just gross.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2022, 07:37 AM
 
50,765 posts, read 36,458,112 times
Reputation: 76566
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Can you name a single monopoly in healthcare?
There aren’t any single monopolies yet but it’s moving that way. A large hospital system expands and they buy all the individual practices and even imaging clinics etc. so depending on area it becomes impossible to get care without using that big systems. Everything is becoming corporatized and competition is decreasing inclusion health care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2022, 07:46 AM
 
1,108 posts, read 528,564 times
Reputation: 2534
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
There aren’t any single monopolies yet but it’s moving that way. A large hospital system expands and they buy all the individual practices and even imaging clinics etc. so depending on area it becomes impossible to get care without using that big systems. Everything is becoming corporatized and competition is decreasing inclusion health care.
That is a bs statement what you really mean is no free care and the last time i looked heath care was not a right -

i live in the county and retired and get all the health care including heart care i need - the issue is the uninsured using our hospital system for things like flue, cut fingers etc. Thanks to Biden and the leftists dilholes in congress it will get worse as all these illegals will get heath care using emergency services tasking away from those of us who worked all our life to pay for medicare and supplement insurance.

The reality is there is only so much money and finite amount of skilled labor to provide services and illegals are taking more and more of the pie because the progressives say they have to treat everyone for free.

its nots a perfect system but come on we cant take care of every damn person coming to the US and give them heath care, education, housing etc unless you want to pay 70 -80% of your income to the feds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2022, 07:57 AM
 
50,765 posts, read 36,458,112 times
Reputation: 76566
Quote:
Originally Posted by done working View Post
That is a bs statement what you really mean is no free care and the last time i looked heath care was not a right -

i live in the county and retired and get all the health care including heart care i need - the issue is the uninsured using our hospital system for things like flue, cut fingers etc. Thanks to Biden and the leftists dilholes in congress it will get worse as all these illegals will get heath care using emergency services tasking away from those of us who worked all our life to pay for medicare and supplement insurance.

The reality is there is only so much money and finite amount of skilled labor to provide services and illegals are taking more and more of the pie because the progressives say they have to treat everyone for free.

its nots a perfect system but come on we cant take care of every damn person coming to the US and give them heath care, education, housing etc unless you want to pay 70 -80% of your income to the feds.
Where did I say anything about free care???? What has anything I wrote to do with free care for anyone? Sounds like you just wanted to spout off about ER care for illegals and tried to make it relevant in a post that had not one thing to do with that.

If I have limited choices who I see because one giant entity controls an entire area, I have limited options to control the costs of my own health care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2022, 08:57 AM
 
19,780 posts, read 18,073,660 times
Reputation: 17268
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
For many districts, population limits would contribute to a natural monopoly state, where it would not make sense to have multiple sites. However, beyond that, many places have robust competition. Therein lies the rub. A fully equipped hospital sees reduced economies of scale on significant on key investments.

The investment needed in this business is incredible. Salaries, staffing shifts, medicine and consumable stocks and rotations, facilities, equipment, insurance from all/every type of lawsuit....it's unreal. All for some smooth brained politico to simply announce it's bad....even as those same homo limptus's cast a staggering string of failures in their own hospitals set up for veterans, prisoners and close out several mental institutions altogether. As for development....if it were with the government, we'd still be sawing off limbs civil war style.

The new medicines and machines are expensive. The testing required to appease the government is incredible. No doctor or pharmacist has a chance of a pathway to developing or releasing a drug they develop themselves without significant outside funding. Hundreds of millions of dollars needed to support any new drug platform. Those investors will have to wait for years while their money is tied up in waiting. That makes that money expensive. I need one hell of a payoff on my money if it's going to sit gone for 10 years before I even know if I have a product. The FDA can be sitting for years on product that's already been approved and in regular use overseas.

Look at how fast the covid vaccines were developed and approved. Nobody knows what was more amazing. The first commericially successful deployment of rna based vaccine....or the fact that something got the FDA to actually move quickly.

Now compare it to Sinovax, China's vaccine answer....but the effectiveness is almost nonexistent to the latest strains. The real reason it's doing the harsh lockdowns on the outbreaks when everyone else is opening up is they are sitting with a billion unvaxxed people that think they are vaccinated.

Here in the United States, we have an expectation that if there's advances in medicine, the health care facility will keep pace and be able to provide it....or otherwise be sued. This in turn keeps a market for the very expensive first round of development, which essentially subsidizes the rest of the world in terms of medical equipment, medicine and treatment advances around the world....because politicians here are completely unable to regulate the reality that they control all of the key components that underpin the high costs....and they have kept the decision to high cost because to not do so would cost lives....and that's messiness they would rather keep in the private sector. Let the providers and insurers fight it out with patient expectations.

That is why we have high costs, and to have some ingratiates who are elected on bumper sticker slogans come forth....angry about healthcare costs and using the tools at their disposal to rebel rouse the population is just gross.

Your first example does not meet the economic definition of a monopoly.

I agree with much of the rest of your post, very strongly with the spirit of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2022, 09:01 AM
 
19,780 posts, read 18,073,660 times
Reputation: 17268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
There aren’t any single monopolies yet but it’s moving that way. A large hospital system expands and they buy all the individual practices and even imaging clinics etc. so depending on area it becomes impossible to get care without using that big systems. Everything is becoming corporatized and competition is decreasing inclusion health care.
I get that some hospitals and hospital chains have made consolidation moves. Typically those moves are great for tiny practice docs. as their pro-rata administrative burdens are so high. Working for a hospital cuts all that greatly.


That said there are thousands for small and solo practice docs. out there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2022, 09:32 AM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,790,907 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
There aren’t any single monopolies yet but it’s moving that way. A large hospital system expands and they buy all the individual practices and even imaging clinics etc. so depending on area it becomes impossible to get care without using that big systems. Everything is becoming corporatized and competition is decreasing inclusion health care.
Maybe they should ease up on the overregulation then?

Every time I go to see a doctor, there are more backoffice staff than there are doctors by a factor of 3. That is NOT a sustainable business model in any professional services practice.

That ratio should be reversed (3 doctors for every 1 backoffice person).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2022, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,065 posts, read 7,235,755 times
Reputation: 17146
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert648 View Post
Maybe they should ease up on the overregulation then?

Every time I go to see a doctor, there are more backoffice staff than there are doctors by a factor of 3. That is NOT a sustainable business model in any professional services practice.

That ratio should be reversed (3 doctors for every 1 backoffice person).
In an irony this is an American phenomenon. I was amazed when I used the health system in the UK how this is not the case there. More administratively efficient. They also make greater use of lower order gradations like nurse practitioners for your basic visits.

Sometimes I think the reason we can't have a decent health care system in the U.S. has to do with our culture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2022, 10:26 AM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,790,907 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
In an irony this is an American phenomenon. I was amazed when I used the health system in the UK how this is not the case there. More administratively efficient. They also make greater use of lower order gradations like nurse practitioners for your basic visits.

Sometimes I think the reason we can't have a decent health care system in the U.S. has to do with our culture.
It's not culture. No one likes red tape.

It's the culture that the statists in DC manufactured.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:59 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top