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Old 05-22-2022, 12:24 PM
 
7,245 posts, read 4,578,777 times
Reputation: 11948

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
a consequence of the shift to working from home.
No I am far more productive from home.

There is a soft strike happening by workers who have realized something is desperately wrong with the current system.
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Old 05-22-2022, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,872 posts, read 25,005,650 times
Reputation: 28592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missmycountry View Post
Baloney ~ people became lazy takers during the early pandemic. They never should have been paid more to sit at home than they made at work. Now nobody wants to go back.

Yea, I'm sure watching their wages/purchasing power get destroyed by inflation had nothing to do with people rejecting work....
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Old 05-22-2022, 08:23 PM
 
6,787 posts, read 5,516,087 times
Reputation: 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
America is changing. The working class no longer want to slave around for years on end without having basic guaranteed benefits people in other countries seem to get. Starting with maternal/paternity leave and three-four weeks of paid vacation a year. We need to take care of our workforce and that means prioritizing families. Americans are exhausted and enough is enough. I'm still patriotic and want the best for my country but things have to change.
This.

In the 60s the business mantra was "you can be replaced by a machine"
In the 70s the matra was "you can replaced by a robot"
In the 80s it was "you can be replaced by a computer"

In the late 70s and early 80s the news reported frequently that "manufacturing will be shifted offshore due to cheaper labor producing better products" And they continued that
" manufacturing jobs are going completely away in the US".
BUT, they noted "all jobs will become either executive engineer jobs...designing products on computer that would be manufactured overseas. And not to worry..the job market will move to a service industry with plenty of non-outsourced service jobs.

Come 1990 the "recession" came coupled with shuttered manufacturing.

What the news DIDN'T tell in the above news reports was that these "service jobs" would all be absolutely minimum wage jobs, no benefits, no raises.

When I started working after graduation it was 1981. I worked retail and I actually loved it. New products, creative outlet for me in set up and display, landed cost vs retail and sales price, etc.

If I worked second shift, even starting at minimum wage, I got an extra 25¢ /hr. Third shift I got an extra 50¢ /hr. When minimum wage was $3.25/hr..that extra $20/w for third shift premium meant a lot.
Also, I never stayed long at minimum wage, shift differential or not.
Also, as I gained experience, I was rewarded with pay above minimum wage, and started at a higher pay if I changed jobs.
Full time work was plenty available, and I was "valued" because I was willing to work overtime and extra shifts, and was rewarded with pay raises.

By the late 80s, I was over 3x minimum wage and was a retail supervisor.
I also cooked in a 4 star restaurant at night because I wanted extra $ for vacations, savings boys toys, etc. I COULD make it single on the store job..with complete benefits, but I earned extra money for extras and to save save.

I had excellent BCBS health insurance $20/w full coverage. I had 3 weeks paid vacation as I hit 5 years. I even had a week paid vacation the very first year of employment there at the store. I had 6 paid sick days a year, and 6 personal paid days. All holiday work was time and a half, AND I got an extra 100% paid holiday floating if I worked on a holiday. I think it was 12 paid holidays a year, only TV and Xmas were guaranteed off, all others could be floaters.
I had a 401k and I contributed the max, with a match of 50¢ per dollar up to 6% with the max of 12% you could contribute.
I had a "retirement profit sharing" plan.

1990 hit, the restaurant let me go...permenantly (because they knew I had another job) and the store cut us back to 20 then to 10 hours per week.
I couldn't collect unenjoyment for the restaurant because I had another job. When the store cut us to 20 hrs, we couldn't collect for missing wages. Not even at 10hrs/w we couldn't collect.

I left the area and moved "back home" where all jobs..even with my experience were bare minimum wage...no benefits.

Spouse will have 10 years at the store spouse works at next month. Spouse has been trained and used as a front end monitor and supervisor. New employees or trainees are told to see spouse for guidance.
Spouse makes the star minimum wage, STILL. they have $0 incentive/supervisor pay. Only raises spouse gets is when the state raises minimum wage.
The ONLY benefit spouse has is a week paid vacation..earned only after 5 years service.
Absolutely NO OTHER benefits.
Xmas bonus? It's a 10% off discount at spouses store. Oh, big whoop! "Come spend MORE money at our store" for a bonus. It's NOT we'll give you a bonus" ..it's "give the store more of your money" for a bonus.

Spouse's company purposely hires 200% more employees for the position s available, because they know they will quit.

Temporary college students are paid more than spouse.. because they have "some college". Uh, spouse never finished college, but qualifies as "some college" as well, but not paid like that.
Companies USED to value "some college "...now it's "what level have you graduated from ".

When spouse is sick, even with a doctor's note, spouse gets a ding. 3 rings in a year you're fired. The flu, for instance is contagious for 5 days after getting it..the store would rather spouse WIRK while CONTAGIOUS, even though spouse can give it to fellow employees AND customers. And spouse works in a grocery store. Think about that the next time you buy your food.is the cashier actually sick with a communicable ailmen?
( Not even going to mention our current nemesis COVID)

THESE are the things the service employees...which WE ALL RELY ON...are complaining about.
Bare minimum wage and zero benefits no health plan no sick days. They can't afford the doctor bill if they get sick, so they don't go. Compound that by no sick days and a ding if you take a sick day.
THATS the complaints.
Has ZERO to do with unemployment benefits exceeding their working pay (those have LONG AGO expired)

And many older people or higher ups just don't "get it".

People are han beings, with family and lives, NOT a never tiring machine. They have thoughts and feelings...lol as well as opinions.
THEY NOW VALUE THEMSELVES and refuse "slave labor" type jobs.
The US gets bent out of shape by "slave labor" in manufacturing overseas...but absolutely FAIL to see it happening HERE right before their eyes!!!
The only difference between a "sweat shop" over there, is that the similar slave labor here...often work in air-conditioning.

Seriously.

A while ago news announcement that "many employers are going to a 24/7 'On Call' schedule for all employees".
Those companies dropped that idea... because their eiall quit or threatened to quit if that "feature" was implemented.

Here's another thought... Minimum wage in the early 80's was $3 .35/hr federal. Today, and since, what 2008, federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, just barely twice what it was 40 years ago.
Do you really think COSTS have only doubled in those 40 years?

And you can vote any number of studies or such that shows "few people actually work at the federal minimum wage". But there's two inherent difficulty there: one is many cities and or states have raised their own minimum wage; and two, all an employer has to do is pay 5¢ more than the federal minimum wage and claim "we pay more than the federal minimum wage" (what's 5¢ an hour going to buy? Maybe a candy bar at payday?)

It's NOT just more pay, it's benefits that employees are seeking. Employers are not getting it.

The CEO of McDonald's made $18million in 2019. Average total annual pay for ALL McDonald's in house store employees was $9k and change FOR THE YEAR (an NO benefits)
He only made $12 million in 2020, with many stores closed for a period during lockdown .
Can YOU live in $9k/yr?
In what city does one NEED to make $18 million/yr to "scrape by"???
( And before anyone spouts that "McDonald's employee s are teens living at home and don't deserve any more"... Just WHI do you think is running the McDonald's store at 6 am when you stop to get a McCafe and egg McMuffin on your way to work? Or are lunch when you get your soda and Big Mac? Or your 10:30 pm "snack" on chix nuggets and quarter pounder? It's ADULTS manning those stores at those times!!! Teens in school are RESTRICTED to work hours only after school and before 9 pm... particularly during school hours.
So THAT argument is MOOT.
OR would you only prefer McDonald's only be open 3pm-9pm and only on weekends from 9am-9pm?.

Another McDonald's argument is "a hamburger will cost $10 and a big Mac $25". Really.
A NY Times article years ago proved McDonald's DOESN'T have to raise the hamburger price even with pay increases.
When Hollywood California went to $15/hr minimum wage restaurants declared they'd have to cut hours and employees AND raise prices. A hamburger would cost $15 then. An article writer actually researched all the average restaurants costs.. from rents to property taxes to employer costs and taxes, even the utilities costs in that area. Even food costs.The writer had it all down, spelled out in real numbers, and PROVED their (restaurant owners) argument was moot.

Also, labor to produce a hamburger to be eaten is only ONE cost...NOT the WHOLE cost. Meat cost is up, what 50%? Bread/wheat costs are up, and due to forecast shortage will go up even more. Not to mention lettuce, pickle onions and cheese and catsup and mustard..just trucking costs up even in those ingredients are the same cost.

So when your hamburger goes up, don't blame it on "stupid employee wage costs".

Best
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Old 05-22-2022, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,479 posts, read 15,672,126 times
Reputation: 28464
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
a consequence of the shift to working from home.
Nope. My spouse has been a remote employee for over 15 years. Their numbers working remotely far exceeded their numbers compared to when they worked in an office. Far too many distractions and disturbances in an office.
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Old 05-23-2022, 03:37 AM
 
7,732 posts, read 12,651,870 times
Reputation: 12427
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
This.
I read everything and I'm terribly sorry you and your spouse have had to go through all of that for a large portion of your lives. A while ago I didn't understand but I do now.
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Old 05-23-2022, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,546 posts, read 6,825,754 times
Reputation: 5990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
People don't want to go back because the pay is pathetic and they have said enough.

The rich are going to have to cut back their greed just a tiny bit.
What good is increasing wages if the cost of everything you consume multiplies more than your wages? An example, a local restaurant increased wages 50% from $12 to $18 for servers. A typical menu item increased from $11 to $17. Part of the increase was due to the increased cost of the wages paid to their employees but the majority was due to all the cost increases in food prices, utilities, insurance, liquor and beer, etc. The increase in wages didn't happen in a vacuum. Most other businesses had to raise their wages too. Many longtime employees left the restaurant to find employment elsewhere because other businesses are desperately looking for employees. The end result, fewer customers at the restaurant since people question the value of a $17 burger, inferior service due to a highly transitory staff, and a high likelihood that this established business (a longterm staple in the community) will not stay in business.

You would think that higher wages would translate to better service. This has not been my experience, in fact the opposite has occurred. At what wage level do you think workers will suddenly become satisfied with their jobs, take pride in what they do and value the customer?
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Old 05-23-2022, 09:10 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
35,168 posts, read 31,475,700 times
Reputation: 47670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missmycountry View Post
Baloney ~ people became lazy takers during the early pandemic. They never should have been paid more to sit at home than they made at work. Now nobody wants to go back.
I know very few people, aside from a handful of people in directly impacted industries at the first shutdown, who "sat on their butt and did nothing."

Virtually anyone I know who was laid off in 2020 was back to work by the end of 2020, at the latest. By and large, if people were still unemployed well into 2021, that was on them.
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Old 05-23-2022, 09:21 AM
 
8,054 posts, read 3,967,817 times
Reputation: 15094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
People don't want to go back because the pay is pathetic and they have said enough.
They will rejoin the labor force if they get hungry.
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Old 05-23-2022, 09:25 AM
 
8,054 posts, read 3,967,817 times
Reputation: 15094
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
this.

In the 60s the business mantra was "you can be replaced by a machine"
in the 70s the matra was "you can replaced by a robot"
in the 80s it was "you can be replaced by a computer"

in the late 70s and early 80s the news reported frequently that "manufacturing will be shifted offshore due to cheaper labor producing better products" and they continued that
" manufacturing jobs are going completely away in the us".
But, they noted "all jobs will become either executive engineer jobs...designing products on computer that would be manufactured overseas. And not to worry..the job market will move to a service industry with plenty of non-outsourced service jobs.

Come 1990 the "recession" came coupled with shuttered manufacturing.

What the news didn't tell in the above news reports was that these "service jobs" would all be absolutely minimum wage jobs, no benefits, no raises.

When i started working after graduation it was 1981. I worked retail and i actually loved it. New products, creative outlet for me in set up and display, landed cost vs retail and sales price, etc.

If i worked second shift, even starting at minimum wage, i got an extra 25¢ /hr. Third shift i got an extra 50¢ /hr. When minimum wage was $3.25/hr..that extra $20/w for third shift premium meant a lot.
Also, i never stayed long at minimum wage, shift differential or not.
Also, as i gained experience, i was rewarded with pay above minimum wage, and started at a higher pay if i changed jobs.
Full time work was plenty available, and i was "valued" because i was willing to work overtime and extra shifts, and was rewarded with pay raises.

By the late 80s, i was over 3x minimum wage and was a retail supervisor.
I also cooked in a 4 star restaurant at night because i wanted extra $ for vacations, savings boys toys, etc. I could make it single on the store job..with complete benefits, but i earned extra money for extras and to save save.

I had excellent bcbs health insurance $20/w full coverage. I had 3 weeks paid vacation as i hit 5 years. I even had a week paid vacation the very first year of employment there at the store. I had 6 paid sick days a year, and 6 personal paid days. All holiday work was time and a half, and i got an extra 100% paid holiday floating if i worked on a holiday. I think it was 12 paid holidays a year, only tv and xmas were guaranteed off, all others could be floaters.
I had a 401k and i contributed the max, with a match of 50¢ per dollar up to 6% with the max of 12% you could contribute.
I had a "retirement profit sharing" plan.

1990 hit, the restaurant let me go...permenantly (because they knew i had another job) and the store cut us back to 20 then to 10 hours per week.
I couldn't collect unenjoyment for the restaurant because i had another job. When the store cut us to 20 hrs, we couldn't collect for missing wages. Not even at 10hrs/w we couldn't collect.

I left the area and moved "back home" where all jobs..even with my experience were bare minimum wage...no benefits.

Spouse will have 10 years at the store spouse works at next month. Spouse has been trained and used as a front end monitor and supervisor. New employees or trainees are told to see spouse for guidance.
Spouse makes the star minimum wage, still. They have $0 incentive/supervisor pay. Only raises spouse gets is when the state raises minimum wage.
The only benefit spouse has is a week paid vacation..earned only after 5 years service.
Absolutely no other benefits.
Xmas bonus? It's a 10% off discount at spouses store. Oh, big whoop! "come spend more money at our store" for a bonus. It's not we'll give you a bonus" ..it's "give the store more of your money" for a bonus.

Spouse's company purposely hires 200% more employees for the position s available, because they know they will quit.

Temporary college students are paid more than spouse.. Because they have "some college". Uh, spouse never finished college, but qualifies as "some college" as well, but not paid like that.
Companies used to value "some college "...now it's "what level have you graduated from ".

When spouse is sick, even with a doctor's note, spouse gets a ding. 3 rings in a year you're fired. The flu, for instance is contagious for 5 days after getting it..the store would rather spouse wirk while contagious, even though spouse can give it to fellow employees and customers. And spouse works in a grocery store. Think about that the next time you buy your food.is the cashier actually sick with a communicable ailmen?
( not even going to mention our current nemesis covid)

these are the things the service employees...which we all rely on...are complaining about.
Bare minimum wage and zero benefits no health plan no sick days. They can't afford the doctor bill if they get sick, so they don't go. Compound that by no sick days and a ding if you take a sick day.
Thats the complaints.
Has zero to do with unemployment benefits exceeding their working pay (those have long ago expired)

and many older people or higher ups just don't "get it".

People are han beings, with family and lives, not a never tiring machine. They have thoughts and feelings...lol as well as opinions.
They now value themselves and refuse "slave labor" type jobs.
The us gets bent out of shape by "slave labor" in manufacturing overseas...but absolutely fail to see it happening here right before their eyes!!!
The only difference between a "sweat shop" over there, is that the similar slave labor here...often work in air-conditioning.

Seriously.

A while ago news announcement that "many employers are going to a 24/7 'on call' schedule for all employees".
Those companies dropped that idea... Because their eiall quit or threatened to quit if that "feature" was implemented.

Here's another thought... Minimum wage in the early 80's was $3 .35/hr federal. Today, and since, what 2008, federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, just barely twice what it was 40 years ago.
Do you really think costs have only doubled in those 40 years?

And you can vote any number of studies or such that shows "few people actually work at the federal minimum wage". But there's two inherent difficulty there: One is many cities and or states have raised their own minimum wage; and two, all an employer has to do is pay 5¢ more than the federal minimum wage and claim "we pay more than the federal minimum wage" (what's 5¢ an hour going to buy? Maybe a candy bar at payday?)

it's not just more pay, it's benefits that employees are seeking. Employers are not getting it.

The ceo of mcdonald's made $18million in 2019. Average total annual pay for all mcdonald's in house store employees was $9k and change for the year (an no benefits)
he only made $12 million in 2020, with many stores closed for a period during lockdown .
Can you live in $9k/yr?
In what city does one need to make $18 million/yr to "scrape by"???
( and before anyone spouts that "mcdonald's employee s are teens living at home and don't deserve any more"... Just whi do you think is running the mcdonald's store at 6 am when you stop to get a mccafe and egg mcmuffin on your way to work? Or are lunch when you get your soda and big mac? Or your 10:30 pm "snack" on chix nuggets and quarter pounder? It's adults manning those stores at those times!!! Teens in school are restricted to work hours only after school and before 9 pm... Particularly during school hours.
So that argument is moot.
Or would you only prefer mcdonald's only be open 3pm-9pm and only on weekends from 9am-9pm?.

Another mcdonald's argument is "a hamburger will cost $10 and a big mac $25". Really.
A ny times article years ago proved mcdonald's doesn't have to raise the hamburger price even with pay increases.
When hollywood california went to $15/hr minimum wage restaurants declared they'd have to cut hours and employees and raise prices. A hamburger would cost $15 then. An article writer actually researched all the average restaurants costs.. From rents to property taxes to employer costs and taxes, even the utilities costs in that area. Even food costs.the writer had it all down, spelled out in real numbers, and proved their (restaurant owners) argument was moot.

Also, labor to produce a hamburger to be eaten is only one cost...not the whole cost. Meat cost is up, what 50%? Bread/wheat costs are up, and due to forecast shortage will go up even more. Not to mention lettuce, pickle onions and cheese and catsup and mustard..just trucking costs up even in those ingredients are the same cost.

So when your hamburger goes up, don't blame it on "stupid employee wage costs".

Best
tl;dr
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:14 PM
 
956 posts, read 513,607 times
Reputation: 1015
Worker shortages and people not taking jobs is a massive problem. Its a massive reason why gasoline prices are absurdly high as they do not have enough truckers and refinery workers to produce enough.
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