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Old 03-24-2010, 10:12 AM
 
9,803 posts, read 14,343,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
I would love to see gas go up towards 5 or 6 a gallon. That would be instrumental in making companies move towards telecommuting, 4 day work weeks, per project pay structuring, or other alternative employment set ups to the 40 hour,5 day at the office work week most of us are unfortunate to experience, and can all realize is pretty archaic, and not neccessary in most cases.

When prices were in the mid 3's, that was enough to start pushing government offices in to 4 day work weeks, just imagine what 5 would do.
In your " bubble vision" you are only looking at gas for commuting to work.

Imagine what food prices would be with $6 gas.
Imagine how much freight charges on everything we buy would jump.

If you think the economy is bad now, $6 gas would make it even worse.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
In your " bubble vision" you are only looking at gas for commuting to work.

Imagine what food prices would be with $6 gas.
Imagine how much freight charges on everything we buy would jump.

If you think the economy is bad now, $6 gas would make it even worse.
I will pay the slight differences in goods and services in exchange for completely erasing my gas and inconvienence for commute any day of the week. Im sure most people would.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,145 posts, read 20,364,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
I will pay the slight differences in goods and services in exchange for completely erasing my gas and inconvienence for commute any day of the week. Im sure most people would.
Except that it isn't a "slight difference" in a world where most of your stuff comes from China on a boat that burns tons of Diesel fuel to get here, then is trucked a couple thousand miles overland to your neighborhood store.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Except that it isn't a "slight difference" in a world where most of your stuff comes from China on a boat that burns tons of Diesel fuel to get here, then is trucked a couple thousand miles overland to your neighborhood store.
Except, that truck isnt bringing "1" item to the store, its bringing thousands of pounds of that item, and that extra couple hundred in fuel is going to be mitigated amongst all of the items.

In reality, it may raise prices a few cents for most small mass produced things.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:21 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 27,059,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Except, that truck isnt bringing "1" item to the store, its bringing thousands of pounds of that item, and that extra couple hundred in fuel is going to be mitigated amongst all of the items.

In reality, it may raise prices a few cents for most small mass produced things.
First, I agree that our our automobile and truck-centered transportation system is largely unsustainable and needs to be significantly replaced by rail transportation, which is leagues more capital and fuel-efficient. And we should be doing that now, instead of investing one more dime in highway expansion.

That said, people have no idea how much fuel costs comprise the cost of everything single thing we buy in our current extremely fuel-inefficient economy and living arrangement in this country. It is a huge percentage. Were fuel prices to hit $6/gallon+ and stay there, the inflation in living costs for Americans would be very significant and would cause a significant decline in the material standard of living for almost everyone. I think that outcome is inevitable, given both our current dependence on petroleum and our current absolute unwillingness to embrace conservation and lifestyle changes necessary to reduce that consumption--but I think it is absolutely myopic to dismiss those impacts as inconsequential. Just the opposite, they could shake the economy and social fabric of this country right to its foundation.

Numerous experts in the petroleum industry, as well as many economists, peg around $4/gal. gasoline and diesel fuel (diesel fuel even more importantly than gasoline) as the price point beyond which serious economic damage begins to occur. Anything beyond around $6 is complete economic disaster territory, unless we can very seriously modify our living arrangement away from trucks, cars, and highways. We have not even begun that task, and I fear fuel prices will head into the stratosphere before we have a chance to make those modifications at any scale. If so, we will see what a resource-scarcity-based economic disaster really looks like. Scary, because it is that kind of disaster back in history that led to the rise of militaristic, brutal, despotic regimes in Japan and Germany that led to WW II. Only this time, we'll be the ones running out of resources.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,145 posts, read 20,364,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Except, that truck isnt bringing "1" item to the store, its bringing thousands of pounds of that item, and that extra couple hundred in fuel is going to be mitigated amongst all of the items.

In reality, it may raise prices a few cents for most small mass produced things.
I think you are vastly underestimating the cost differences.

WikiAnswers - How much fuel does a container ship burn

Millions of pennies add up to a lot of money when you are talking about the huge volumes of fuel consumed by just one container ship. Really, the only thing that makes this practical for moment is the insanely low cost of labor in places like China AND the low price of fuel. If you double the cost for transport, the profit margin is gone. Quadrupal the cost of fuel and there is no reason to produce it abroad and ship it here.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
I think you are vastly underestimating the cost differences.

WikiAnswers - How much fuel does a container ship burn

Millions of pennies add up to a lot of money when you are talking about the huge volumes of fuel consumed by just one container ship.
Do you know how many tons of junk a container ship hauls? These things get loaded up almost to the point of sinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Really, the only thing that makes this practical for moment is the insanely low cost of labor in places like China AND the low price of fuel. If you double the cost for transport, the profit margin is gone. Quadrupal the cost of fuel and there is no reason to produce it abroad and ship it here.
Some economists would say this is a good thing. Huge sustained fuel costs could push many factories back to the US.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:36 AM
 
1,820 posts, read 4,176,440 times
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I personally have no problem with gas skyrocketing. It would kill globalization. Our economic construct is based on the fact that multi-nationals can get away with making a plastic doll in china, put on boat on the other side of the world, get it here, put it on a dirty small truck and drive it inefficiently to a store, for cheaper than making the door next to my street. Gas is the meth of globalization. You make it prohibitive, and voil√° down goes globalization. God willing. And what about the service economy you say? Good riddance to that one too.

Gas will be 5-6 bucks/gal in less than 5 years easy. The '10s are not shaping up to be a fun decade to live in america.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:23 AM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,331,858 times
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[quote=hindsight2020;13444810The '10s are not shaping up to be a fun decade to live in america. [/QUOTE]

Unless we were to actively choose to reduce and go off of Oil.

Then it could be a new long-term boom era.

Balance of payments on trade could go even. Pollution could vastly reduce. Actual local-home-grown-industry could thrive doing replacement energy and equipment . . . . on and on and on.

But for now, we have Meet-the-New-Boss, Same-As-the-Old-Boss. Continuing the endless resource/oil wars. Bailing out the same old oil burning auto industry. Same old, same old, more debt, destruction and death. For now, America is like a dead fish -- rotting from the head down.
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Yucaipa, California
9,866 posts, read 19,697,660 times
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I would much rather have a fuel economy car but for now im stuck with 15 city & 20 highway (85 olds delta 88).
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