U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-30-2010, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Central Alberta
156 posts, read 361,634 times
Reputation: 73

Advertisements

Haha! Some people have crazy idea's.

I like healthy oil price like we do right now, OPEC did a good job. Prices are fair, economy can be profitable (ie employment) its good. My well servicing company has hired 240 people since September.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-30-2010, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,955 posts, read 18,720,702 times
Reputation: 7193
Folk's the root question that's being ignored is not how much gas will cost but will gas be available at any price?

Look around your local area to see how many gas stations have closed in the last 2 years let alone how many have closed in the last 10 years. Have any new gas stations been built in your area? If so did a local gas station close shortly after the new one opened? Then think about for every station that closed there is now that many thousands of gallons of fuel NOT available in your local area.

There are far more demands for fuel than is thought to be besides cars. It's these invisible demands that will help dry up fuel in the case of any shortage at all.

People can wax and wane about gas prices ,or other petrol fuel prices, but ya'll better wake up to the fact that America is running on fumes paid for with borrowed money & blood. That can't ,and won't, go on forever.

So my advice is to adjust your lifestyle to become as independent of the oil pipe line as you can and to do so quickly. Those that do will suffer much less pain than the polly anna's that don't think the fuel will either run out or become a commodity that even the rich struggle to afford.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2010, 01:01 AM
 
5,409 posts, read 10,331,858 times
Reputation: 4478
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle7 View Post
I would much rather have a fuel economy car but for now im stuck with 15 city & 20 highway (85 olds delta 88).
Drive it less, little, or none, and you will be even further ahead than if you had the economy car.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Business ethics is an oxymoron.
2,166 posts, read 2,602,706 times
Reputation: 4845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
Folk's the root question that's being ignored is not how much gas will cost but will gas be available at any price?

Look around your local area to see how many gas stations have closed in the last 2 years let alone how many have closed in the last 10 years. Have any new gas stations been built in your area? If so did a local gas station close shortly after the new one opened? Then think about for every station that closed there is now that many thousands of gallons of fuel NOT available in your local area.

There are far more demands for fuel than is thought to be besides cars. It's these invisible demands that will help dry up fuel in the case of any shortage at all.

People can wax and wane about gas prices ,or other petrol fuel prices, but ya'll better wake up to the fact that America is running on fumes paid for with borrowed money & blood. That can't ,and won't, go on forever.

So my advice is to adjust your lifestyle to become as independent of the oil pipe line as you can and to do so quickly. Those that do will suffer much less pain than the polly anna's that don't think the fuel will either run out or become a commodity that even the rich struggle to afford.
I love it when people like to talk about the fuel business when it's painfully obvious they know very little about it outside of what they see as a street price or whatever soundbite their local news station happens to blurt out.

First, although Peak Oil is an acknowledged truth, there is no natural shortage of it coming anytime soon. Gas and other oil based fuels will remain around for the forseeable future. Spot shortages-if and when they occur-are almost always intentional. Either refiners cutting back production to raise their margins. Or suppliers hoarding supply because they know that just by sitting on a pipeline shipment a day or two, can get an extra five or ten cents a gallon just by selling it the next day. We heard about what happened in the South a few years back. But that is the exception and not the rule.

Now getting back to gas stations, there is too likewise no shortage of those either. Nor can we expect to see one anytime soon. Because your diatrabe there doesn't take a few things into account. Let's examine the three tiers of fuel outets.

First and bottom of the pecking order is the off-brand, independant little gas station. They typically have street names like "Kwik Korner", "Joe's Gas Shack", "Quik-E-Mart", and "Lucky Gas". They are at the end of the supply line and thus have the least access to fuel. Although they enjoy the benefit of being able to shop around for fuel (i.e. are not under contract to a supplier), and can usually sell it for a few cents cheaper than the brand names, the tradeoff is that they are at the mercy of intra-day price swings, product availability, and delivery truck availability. Since in the eyes of the industry as a whole, these guys get the lowest priority, they have to settle for "the scraps and leftovers". The independant station is as often as not a site that is nearing the end of its viable life. They tend to suffer from image and perception problems and the sites are often small, run down, and poorly maintained. Many of them are unbranded not by choice, but because their credit and finances are often so shady that no major will extend them credit. Close to half of undependants have to prepay for their fuel. And being subject to the whims and vagaries of the Spot market, they can end up losing money even before their next load arrives. It seems silly but yes. Trying to earn a living just selling gas is a sure fire path to financial ruin these days. Yet far too many of these dealers still try to earn profit from gasoline. Some-but not many-of these places have a convenince store and/or repair shop. THAT'S where the money is made. The gas is break-even at best and used as a lure to get someone inside. The ones that have little more than two or three pumps accompanied by a cashier shack that sells little more than gum and cigarettes-they are in a life and death struggle for survival.

The unbranded station. While relatively common now, they have already been dropping like flies these last few years. I expect to see them become quite rare by the end of this decade. And extinct by the end of the next. The ones in outlying and rural areas that are supllanted by a strong C-store will be the last to go. The ones now inside the cities and Suburbs? The first.

Next you have the branded sites. Think BP, Chevron, Exxon, etc. These aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Many of the ones you see now being demolished are being rebuilt to modern standards. If any of you have been inside a modern BP Connect site lately (or new ARCO-AM/PM on the West Coast), this is the future of the local fueling station: clean. Convenient. Large and well lit. Large supply of snacks/hot food/coffee/etc. inside.

And finally you have the 600 pound gorilla: the Hypermarket. This is your Costco, Sams Club, or Safeway outlet. They have a couple of dozen dispensers. And sell for anywhere from a few pennies to a dime or more below that of the next closest gas station. THIS is where the lions share of action and future of the industry is found. They get the best of both worlds: they can shop around for their fuel a-la unbranded and can therefore get the best price. They are able to negotiate substantial discounts because of bulk volume pricing. Furthermore, they are able to sell it at or below cost as a loss-leader to get you into the store. It is a fantastic formula that's been a stunning success and will only rise in the future as more folks demand the absolute cheapest price coupled with the convenience of "errand consolidation". One Costco can fulfill the fueling needs of four or five little standalone gas stations. So while you think that "sites are closing left and right" in your area, check around. Has a Costco or Sams Club gone up nearby recently? Chances are. One has. And has effectively siphoned off enough business to kill off the little independant. Incidentally, this is another reason why the no-name gas station is doomed and not long for this world. They are getting attacked from all sides: being at the end of the supply chain. Volatile pricing. An inability or unwillingness to embrace and adapt to the ancilliary sales business model. And the ferocious price undercutting from the hypermarkets who can buy and sell for a substantial cost below.

And finally let's look at "alternative" fuels. Forget all that hype. Because that's largely what it is. Not even taking into account technological feasibility and viability issues, it's a classic chicken-or-egg conundrum. No one is going to invest in the necessary upgrades to offer those fuels until enough vehicles are in the area to justify it. And no one is going to buy a so-equipped vehicle until there are filling stations offering the service.

Until you can figure out a way to break that Gordian Knot, all this talk about mass-produced cars running on algae and used french fry oil is just a pipe dream. Realistically, I wouldn't expect to see anything like that implemented on a widescale basis until the 2030's at the earliest.

Last edited by Des-Lab; 04-02-2010 at 10:40 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,955 posts, read 18,720,702 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Des-Lab View Post
I love it when people like to talk about the fuel business when it's painfully obvious they know very little about it outside of what they see as a street price or whatever soundbite their local news station happens to blurt out.

Because your diatrabe there doesn't take a few things into account.
You could have commented without trying to demean my point of view or demean me. Doing that is classed as a personal attack which violates TOS.

Shame to cause you did have something interesting to say........
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2010, 09:06 PM
 
1 posts, read 841 times
Reputation: 10
Most the people on here have no idea what's realistic and what's not. Through fear or just plain trying to freak people out, they are saying stuff that's plain silly. Having worked for the government , and if you do your own research, I know for a fact there is still 80+ more years of oil left in the earth to sustain vehicles/machines like they have been driven/operated over the last 80 yearts. Anyone 20 years of age and on, won't likely see oil disappear. AND I know first hand, how oil companies (which I won't name..but the are the big 3) will do whatever they can to slow or hault alternate fuel engines , especially electric cars. From a oil companies perspective....oil will never reach a certain price as long as the material (oil) is still readily available. Because if they did, they would FORCE companies/people to produce engines that use less/no gas. And force people to actually drop demand.(Cause and affect). With an ALL electric car being manufactured and realesed by CHEVY in 2011.... others WILL follow. Do you really think the oil companies are gonna raise prices to ridiculous levels to screw themselves???

$20 a gallon by memorial day 2010.. made me actually laugh outloud. That's just silly.

Last edited by DrFuelmd; 04-30-2010 at 09:08 PM.. Reason: spelling
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2010, 12:59 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 88,455,406 times
Reputation: 18187
Right now we are in more fo a problem in that many can't afford for the evntaull rise in energy because of the cost going up because of competiiton for what prodcues it.We will see it only get worse especailly has demand rises with teh worl getting back to more demand as the economy gets better. Cruse is the biggest problem to solve. We need to prepalce over 19000 products based on it not just gasoline. Ahterntaive will be even more expensive to produce especialy during our lifetime.The infrastructure cost alone is staggering. Crude is saught by the world because of its hig energy output and stil cheaper by far with so many products produced by it thru decades of research.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:03 AM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top