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Old 01-29-2023, 10:00 AM
 
19,495 posts, read 17,734,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbiz1 View Post
Home prices and rents have tripled since 2000, salaries most certainly have not.
For some reason I can't link the home price to MHHI chart but until middle 2021 relative home prices were the same as 1953. After mid 2021 there was a blow up for a lot of reasons but that trend has begun to reverse.


I'll try to post the link again later.
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Old 01-29-2023, 10:00 AM
 
3,881 posts, read 2,077,918 times
Reputation: 9868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Part of that "something" is that REIT's and flippers have taken over various aspects of the RE market, driving rents and prices far beyond what most people can pay. They started out in some markets taking advantage of job booms that created increased demand, but now they're spread across the country into other markets, other RE sectors, like mobile home parks and storage facilities. This has been going on under the radar for about 30 years, and people are only now beginning to recognize the problem.

How the Pharma industry was allowed to get away with predatory pricing, making basic prescriptions like inulin unaffordable to most is beyond me.
Spot on.
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Old 01-29-2023, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
6,782 posts, read 2,572,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
a couple years in the military solves a lot of educational expense problems and is a positive on a resume.
That's what my dad did. My family were dirt poor farmers living in West Virginia. He joined the Air Force and went to college on the GI Bill and became a Mechanical Engineer.
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Old 01-29-2023, 11:23 AM
 
4,848 posts, read 2,959,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
For some reason I can't link the home price to MHHI chart but until middle 2021 relative home prices were the same as 1953. After mid 2021 there was a blow up for a lot of reasons but that trend has begun to reverse.
I'll try to post the link again later.

https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/


Second bubble is what it appears to be?
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Old 01-30-2023, 10:03 AM
 
37,442 posts, read 45,636,613 times
Reputation: 56845
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Ok I've said this before, look at all the stuff that our parents NEVER paid for:

Gym memberships, HOA fees, leased cars, $ixbucks coffee, satellite radio, cell phones/internet........

This stuff is stealing money out of households and being marked as "necessity" vs. extras.

My parents bought a brand new 4 bedroom house in Fort Lauderdale in the mid 70s for 44K. They both worked but certainly weren't killing it. They NEVER had 2 car payments at a time, never paid for cable tv, private school and rarely went out to dinner (maybe once a month at a BBQ place). I'm not sure they ever ordered out of the Sears catalog, nevermind something like Amazon!

Reality is people overspend both big and small, this erodes their financial stability this month, this year and in some cases their whole lives.
Agree with all the above. We always thought of ourselves as "middle class", but my parents certainly could not afford to pay for college. I was the only one that got my degree, and my employer paid for that. We had one car until we reached high school. Eating dinner at a restaurant was a luxury that was just for special occasions. People have such different expectations now, and it's rather silly to compare the expectations and lifestyles of today, to what they were just 40-50 years ago.

I had a new car at 16. I started working part time at 15, (my brother would take me to work, or sometimes I actually took a cab) saved up money for a down payment, and bought my own car. Dad signed for the loan, but I made every single car payment, on time. My car was paid off before I reached the age of 19.
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Old 01-30-2023, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,006 posts, read 7,147,048 times
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People in the past had things they had to pay for too. Need to call anyone outside a 50 mile radius? That one long distance phone call would cost like 10 bucks. The main difference now vs. what my parents paid for on a monthly basis, is that internet is now a utility that you pretty much have to pay for to operate in the world. But, they had things like long distance phone charges.

The cost of home entertainment has plummeted and SO cheap now. A streaming service for $16 a month will give you access to entertainment that would have cost you thousands back in the 80s or 90s. Hell, I remember paying for music! Now I carry a collection of songs, deliverable in MUCH higher quality than what I used to get on cassette tapes, in my pocket that would have taken me months and hundreds or thousands of dollars to accumulate when I was a kid.

This is provable through economic statistics. The costs of consumer electronics and telecommunications have DE-flated. By a lot. I mean, I can get a TV that's practically the size of a movie screen, with crystal clarity and performance, for what $1500? And the LEDs will last 20 years unless I break it. If anything we are rich in screens.

While nickel and dimes like online subscriptions, gym memberships or frequent eating out can add up, lack of frugality is not why most people are struggling. That is completely within their control.

At some point you can't frugal yourself out of housing cost going up faster than salaries. I can afford to fill up a house 4 times over with every consumer electronic bell and whistle imaginable - state of the art sound and video quality in every room. The highest cost of that would be hiring the labor to do the installation. What I can't afford is the property and house to put electronics in.

Last edited by redguard57; 01-30-2023 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 01-30-2023, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,870 posts, read 6,775,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
We feel poor, because we are poorer. The cost of everything is rising, so we are forced to cut expenses of things we can control, because the things we can’t control, like insurance, taxes, rents, are going up.

As retired people, we are used to looking for ways to cut back every year, but I do not know how families with kids, or young people just starting out are making it.

When I first got married, mothers stayed home, a big new house cost $34k, and an annual income of $12k was enough to be comfortable. I know everything is relative, but something is seriously out of proportion these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Ok I've said this before, look at all the stuff that our parents NEVER paid for:

Gym memberships, HOA fees, leased cars, $ixbucks coffee, satellite radio, cell phones/internet........

This stuff is stealing money out of households and being marked as "necessity" vs. extras.

My parents bought a brand new 4 bedroom house in Fort Lauderdale in the mid 70s for 44K. They both worked but certainly weren't killing it. They NEVER had 2 car payments at a time, never paid for cable tv, private school and rarely went out to dinner (maybe once a month at a BBQ place). I'm not sure they ever ordered out of the Sears catalog, nevermind something like Amazon!

Reality is people overspend both big and small, this erodes their financial stability this month, this year and in some cases their whole lives.
I agree with both of you. In reality I think it's a little bit of both. Wages haven't kept up with inflation, RE tax, property tax, and sales taxes are certainly a higher percentage of the median wage than they were in the past.

On the flip side, people are living in larger homes than in the past. Mobile phones are a staple that everyone pays for. Cable, Internet, and streaming services are all expectations of today that didn't exist before. I remember using free cable via the bunny ear antennae. Houses now have multiple computers, TVs, ipads, etc. In the past each household shared one TV, if even that.

The leased car, satellite radio, starbucks, and eating dinner out part is not really an expectation or standard for today. Sure eating out is more common, but it isn't an expectation for many families still, including my own. We rarely eat out but groceries are still very expensive and depending on what you make they can be more than the cost of eating out.

We refuse to pay monthly for anything that is not necessary. I would never lease a car or pay for satellite radio. We are frugal with our money but it's still hard to stretch despite earning a solid middle class income.

I will also note that we pay $1350 a month in childcare which is low cost for my area. My mom split childcare with my Aunt because neither of them worked. Now it's hard to be middle class without being a dual income family. We wouldn't be able to afford my area on my salary alone so we have to pay for childcare.
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Old 01-31-2023, 04:45 PM
 
12,047 posts, read 10,181,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRlaura View Post
Sure they can. By the time they are 18 they could have worked full time for at least 3 summers and part time during school. They could take a year off after high school and work full time. They could apply for many of the thousands of scholarships that go unclaimed every year. They could go into the military first for a couple years They could start their college education at a junior or community college.

it certainly can be done. I did it and watched many others do the same. And no one said they have to work at a Starbucks. Where the heck did that come from???..........
yep - my nephew did that. Single mom - no help from dad. He ranked at the top of his class. Graduated from a state uni and then got a masters from Yale. All scholarships.
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Old 02-01-2023, 10:26 AM
 
1,108 posts, read 516,781 times
Reputation: 2534
Reading the responses here i can only say if you feel like you not making enough then change the way you are earning a living. Forty years ago i got a rude awaking about pay and what owners actually think about their employees when after 5 years working for the same company i decided to leave and the owner asked me to stay with a 50 buck a month raise. I saw people working union jobs getting the same pay whether they worked hard or mailed it in. Right there i decided i was not going to allow anyone tell me how much i could make and went into sales relaying on my own abilities. In sales you control your own destiny and have absolute control on your life. Your own drive and abilities take you where you want to go. I made the decision to work 6 days a week, i decided to take chances and risk for rewards and i would do it all over again the same way.
The point is take charge of your life and if you really want something you can have it this is America after all and opportunities are all over.
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Old 02-01-2023, 10:48 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,062 posts, read 106,950,530 times
Reputation: 115838
Quote:
Originally Posted by done working View Post
Reading the responses here i can only say if you feel like you not making enough then change the way you are earning a living. Forty years ago i got a rude awaking about pay and what owners actually think about their employees when after 5 years working for the same company i decided to leave and the owner asked me to stay with a 50 buck a month raise. I saw people working union jobs getting the same pay whether they worked hard or mailed it in. Right there i decided i was not going to allow anyone tell me how much i could make and went into sales relaying on my own abilities. In sales you control your own destiny and have absolute control on your life. Your own drive and abilities take you where you want to go. I made the decision to work 6 days a week, i decided to take chances and risk for rewards and i would do it all over again the same way.
The point is take charge of your life and if you really want something you can have it this is America after all and opportunities are all over.
In 5 years, you'd never been given a raise?
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