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Check out the social security cap over time. In 1950 only about $3000 were subject to social security taxes. In 2023 dollars that’s about $39000. Today we pay payroll taxes on over 4 times that amount and the program is increasingly broke. Sure politicians moan about how the rich don’t pay enough but looking at projections it’s increasingly obvious no amount of money can fix it long term. It’s been paying out people far more than they pay in for a long time and not only will the reserves run dry—the amount it pays as a percentage will decrease more and more as time wears on.
While temporary bandaids can try to save the program over time it will increasingly become unsustainable due to demographic changes, disability fraud, and simple math.
Had we all been forced to put 12.5% of our income into a private fund we’d at least not have to worry about it being stolen in some government Ponzi scheme.
There's no point. There is NO FORM of government that is incorruptible. All despots have no incentive to do anything that prevents them from pursuing power, whether that's through force or buying votes with the money confiscated from taxpayers. The best you can have is to live in some tribe in the jungle or on some tiny god-forsaken island where no real wealth can be built up for others to steal, and where you can essentially subsist in harmony with nature living off the land. And even then, you run the risk of being screwed over by some superpower doing nuclear testing, or wanting to build a waystation across the ocean.
You can't convince people that life in "civilization" always ends.... inevitably.... the same way. For America, I'm thinking it's going to ultimately be the story of a shooting star that appeared suddenly, flashed brighter than the sun for a brief moment as it blazed from east to west, then disappeared just as suddenly in the blink of an eye. Being the richest nation in all of history..... we didn't HAVE A CHANCE to survive more than a couple of centuries.
And yet, we just keep on riding the same old merry go round.
Humanity is stupid. Just stupid.
And we're getting exactly what we deserve ultimately.
I would feel sorry for the innocent generations that have yet to be born who will inherit our wreckage.
But really, they won't do any differently than their ancestors did before them. They'll come along, fix all the messes they inherited, then leave more messes behind for their ancestors to clean up and add more messes to.
It's the human condition and it will NEVER change.
There's no point. There is NO FORM of government that is incorruptible. All despots have no incentive to do anything that prevents them from pursuing power, whether that's through force or buying votes with the money confiscated from taxpayers. The best you can have is to live in some tribe in the jungle or on some tiny god-forsaken island where no real wealth can be built up for others to steal, and where you can essentially subsist in harmony with nature living off the land. And even then, you run the risk of being screwed over by some superpower doing nuclear testing, or wanting to build a waystation across the ocean.
You can't convince people that life in "civilization" always ends.... inevitably.... the same way. For America, I'm thinking it's going to ultimately be the story of a shooting star that appeared suddenly, flashed brighter than the sun for a brief moment as it blazed from east to west, then disappeared just as suddenly in the blink of an eye. Being the richest nation in all of history..... we didn't HAVE A CHANCE to survive more than a couple of centuries.
And yet, we just keep on riding the same old merry go round.
Humanity is stupid. Just stupid.
And we're getting exactly what we deserve ultimately.
I would feel sorry for the innocent generations that have yet to be born who will inherit our wreckage.
But really, they won't do any differently than their ancestors did before them. They'll come along, fix all the messes they inherited, then leave more messes behind for their ancestors to clean up and add more messes to.
It's the human condition and it will NEVER change.
You can't convince people that life in "civilization" always ends.... inevitably.... the same way.
You're right. You can't convince me that something that has never happened (collapse of civilization) is inevitable
The program was set up as "old age assistance" and called "Federal old-age benefits", and to be "paid upon the income of every individual a tax" by congress in 1935. So payments are definitely considered a tax, but they really did not call it insurance. The Supreme Court also ruled that the payments were a tax in 1937.
The 1939 Amendment to the Social Security act relabeled the Title II name from the "FEDERAL OLD AGE BENEFITS" and the "OLD AGE RESERVE ACCOUNT" to the "FEDERAL OLD-AGE AND SURVIVORS INSURANCE BENEFITS" and the 'Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund' - so clearly they changed to call it insurance there but never claimed that the tax was a premium
SSA.gov calls SS a "benefit" pretty consistently but SSDI and Medicare are labeled as "insurance". They say also that it is "funded through a dedicated payroll tax". Mandatory payments are normally regarded as a tax.
But in some sense, it really not an either/or and not that important about whether it is insurance or a benefit - it is essentially a tax to pay for a later benefit that may be considered insurance but the main benefit is not technically called insurance currently and the payments were never called a premium. The Social Security is financed through a dedicated payroll tax - that tax goes to pay essentially a mandatory insurance like program.
Bottom line is that whether the SS program is really insurance or more properly listed as a benefit is somewhat debatable. But it is definitely true that the payments have always been considered as a tax and never were stated to be an insurance premium.
You can't convince people that life in "civilization" always ends.... inevitably.... the same way.
You're right. You can't convince me that something that has never happened (collapse of civilization) is inevitable
I think you miscontrue my meaning:
What I'm talking about is life IN "civilization". Not apart from it. Never happened? Wow. You are certainly the optimist. Along with about 99.99999 percent of the merry-go-round going around in circles.
All I can say is that, if this is what "civilization" looks like.... then how could uncivilized look much different?
There's no point. There is NO FORM of government that is incorruptible. All despots have no incentive to do anything that prevents them from pursuing power, whether that's through force or buying votes with the money confiscated from taxpayers. The best you can have is to live in some tribe in the jungle or on some tiny god-forsaken island where no real wealth can be built up for others to steal, and where you can essentially subsist in harmony with nature living off the land. And even then, you run the risk of being screwed over by some superpower doing nuclear testing, or wanting to build a waystation across the ocean.
You can't convince people that life in "civilization" always ends.... inevitably.... the same way. For America, I'm thinking it's going to ultimately be the story of a shooting star that appeared suddenly, flashed brighter than the sun for a brief moment as it blazed from east to west, then disappeared just as suddenly in the blink of an eye. Being the richest nation in all of history..... we didn't HAVE A CHANCE to survive more than a couple of centuries.
And yet, we just keep on riding the same old merry go round.
Humanity is stupid. Just stupid.
And we're getting exactly what we deserve ultimately.
I would feel sorry for the innocent generations that have yet to be born who will inherit our wreckage.
But really, they won't do any differently than their ancestors did before them. They'll come along, fix all the messes they inherited, then leave more messes behind for their ancestors to clean up and add more messes to.
It's the human condition and it will NEVER change.
Not disagreeing, but does civilization end if social security pays out some small portion of what is promised? I wouldn’t go that far.
City Data needs to have a section for conspiracy theories, so that threads like this can be put in there proper place. This is not an "Economics" topic.
I do wonder why such threads are started. Social Security, by any other name, has been around for almost a 100 years. Nothing new can come of beating the topic death for the millionth time
After awhile you just grow tired of all the dire prediction about SS becoming unfunded. Ain't happening kids. It's a dog and pony show for the politicians and the willing dupes that believe the theatre is real.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!
That man was Upton Sinclair.
This forum has a high percentage of retirees as members. I wouldn't expect much from such a topic given the crowd.
Not that Social Security is in any immediate danger. The trust fund has another ten years before it runs out, and it will limp along with impaired benefits for a long time after that. The current recipients are not so much preserving their income as preserving their sense of desert and rectitude. No one wants to admit they benefit from a scam.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 05-20-2023 at 08:34 PM..
This forum has a high percentage of retirees as members. I wouldn't expect much from such a topic given the crowd.
Not that Social Security is in any immediate danger. The trust fund has another ten years before it runs out, and it will limp along with impaired benefits for a long time after that. The current recipients are not so much preserving their income as preserving their sense of desert and rectitude. No one wants to admit they benefit from a scam.
Exactly. I responded in a similiar fashion to the poster your post references, and speculated that the multiple posts they made, as well as my response, would be probably deleted and of course they were. Verbotten. Don't have much hopes of this post continuing to survive. Suprised your post has thus far.
Last edited by herringbone; 05-20-2023 at 08:38 PM..
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