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It is narrow minded to measure anything in dollars as our government policies make the dollar worth less every day. A millionaire in 1950 would have less than 15,000 in todays dollars.
But our lifestyle much improved. Some of that due to higher wages, and some due to technologies.
LOL! The fact you don't think they don't rig the system is ludicrous. Have you even paid attention to the returns earned by congress this past year? How about the fact that earned income is taxed differently if it's earned through securities? Perhaps tax loopholes aren't considered rigging the system? Then how about Super PACs for large corporations?
There are many ways that the rich that can rig the system to get richer. I'm not going to blame them for my position, but it doesn't help and it most certainly IS NOT fair.
I don't think there is an issue with wanting things to be fair in our country. It simply isn't.
Have you been prohibited from making those returns yourself? You can make a lot by investing in securities yourself but you need to risk the investment.
The fact is that capital gains taxes are taxed at full wage rate if they are short term gains, only long term gains get a break but they are higher for the rich, taxed at 23.8% vs as low as 0% for someone earning less. The tax on capital gains is way higher than the tax for most returns - do you not know this? Very few have a tax rate higher than the max capital gain rate.
BTW - capital gain tax is not a loophole - they tax gains at a lesser rate to encourage long term investment, growing jobs and the economy - this tax break likely created your job either directly or indirectly. But if the rich were really rigging the system would not their rate be even lower? The many ways the rich get richer is that they work hard and invest - not complain about others making more.
the tax code is already very progressive. The rich already pay most of the taxes and yet you think they should pay more? It used to be that everyone pays taxes, now less than 50% actually do so. The top 10% already pay 50% of the taxes.
Only money is money, everything else(stocks real estate etc)is just theoretical money.
I can pay an art appraiser to value my million-dollar art collection at a billion dollars , hey look at me Im a billionaire.
Only money is money, everything else(stocks real estate etc)is just theoretical money.
I can pay an art appraiser to value my million-dollar art collection at a billion dollars , hey look at me Im a billionaire.
Not correct - even most money is not actually money - most money is just a number on a ledger in an account. The value of the rest are based on what money they can be readily traded for - that is real worth, not theoretical or based on some made up number. Most wealth is in stocks and real estate value, little is held in cash because cash does not increase in value like investments.
The global GDP per capita was $12,234.80 USD in 2021. If we could find a way to distribute all the wealth in the world equally to everyone, there would be an universal monthly income of $1.019 for each person. Almost 100% of the Americans including the poor would have their wealth confiscated in order to make it possible, that would be fun.
Exactly. You would have to decrease the world's population by several billion people to achieve a decent "universal monthly income." I'm pretty sure billions of people won't volunteer to non-exist, so the millions who are still around can get a universal monthly income.
Small potatoes. Why do you worry so much about what some Congressman or CEO earns anyway?
You clearly didn't even comprehend what I wrote. I even literally said I don't blame the rigged system for my position. I'm not holding any grudges. But the system is rigged to favor those with the most power. I'm not even complaining about salaries so that's just a red herring argument from your end trying to distract from the meat of the subject which is that the system is indeed rigged.
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Originally Posted by treasurekidd
They're not. Tax "loopholes" as you call them are in reality tax LAWS, and they are there for anyone to use, not just the select few.
No, everyone calls them loopholes because they are. If you are a partner of a private equity fund, you can claim your entire income as a long term investment and be taxed on the paltry 15-20% as opposed to the average income earner who gets taxed closer to 30-35%. The loophole is IN the tax law. My brother in law is literally a partner in a hedge fund and calls it a loophole. The thing that makes it a loophole is that the rich can classify their income in a way that lowers their tax obligations. It's an oversight created in the tax code that was never closed, hence a loophole.
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Originally Posted by treasurekidd
You're confusing "fair" with "equal". Everyone in this country has the same opportunities, but that does guarantee equal outcomes. I can't go make $20 million per year because I can't throw or hit a 100MPH fastball. Does that make the fact that someone else can somehow unfair? Of course not.
No, fair and equality are indeed different and I am not confusing it. The rules the wealthy play by are not the same rules a normal person plays by. It's as simple as that. The wealthy have more options to hide their wealth, they have more options to adjust how income is earned so that taxes are more favorable to them. It's not available to average earners because most income earners cannot make money through money. Average income earners make money by labor.
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Originally Posted by treasurekidd
Look everywhere in the natural world, life is simply unfair at times. If one group of squirrels collects 1,000 lbs of acorn in a summer because they live in a wooded area with lots of oak trees, and another group of squirrels collects none, the second group has a much tougher time in winter. Should there be a "squirrel congress" to decide how many acorns the first group should give to the second group to make it "fair"? Ridiculous!
I'm not trying to argue that selling water in the desert is a worse business plan than selling ice to an eskimo. Nor am I saying we need to divvy up taxed income among the poor. Not even on the same subject with this one.
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Originally Posted by treasurekidd
Work is where you go to earn money and improve your own life. Learn as much as you can, work as hard as you can, and make the wisest choices with your money that you can and over time you will improve your life. It's called getting ahead.
LOL, I am a landlord who gets to take advantage of real estate write offs. I am unable to earn my salary in long term capital gains though. My bro in law does though! So hey, at least someone in my family is taking advantage. Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to get a finance degree at a top 10 university. You won't hear me complain about my situation with regards to tax law. I'm fighting for fairness as a morale obligation more than a personal benefit.
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Originally Posted by treasurekidd
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Originally Posted by EduardoFinatto
The global GDP per capita was $12,234.80 USD in 2021. If we could find a way to distribute all the wealth in the world equally to everyone, there would be an universal monthly income of $1.019 for each person. Almost 100% of the Americans including the poor would have their wealth confiscated in order to make it possible, that would be fun.
I never mentioned splitting wealth or creating some sort of socialist economy. Just close the loopholes, and force congress to refrain from investing in businesses that have to do with whatever bills are on the floor. There should be oversight in what they can invest in.
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Originally Posted by ddeemo
Have you been prohibited from making those returns yourself? You can make a lot by investing in securities yourself but you need to risk the investment.
I am not prohibited from buying stocks, but I also don't have insider knowledge on upcoming bills that are in discussion and/or additional insider information on how certain industries are performing. Congresses job is literally to set rules and laws that have major effects on industries. The fact they can garner returns in the 100-200% is WELL beyond how any average person's portfolio would perform. The reason for their success? Insider knowledge that the average person doesn't have. A CEO is able to be held liable if they are caught insider trading, there has never been a case tried against a congressmen for the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
The fact is that capital gains taxes are taxed at full wage rate if they are short term gains, only long term gains get a break but they are higher for the rich, taxed at 23.8% vs as low as 0% for someone earning less. The tax on capital gains is way higher than the tax for most returns - do you not know this? Very few have a tax rate higher than the max capital gain rate.
The secret is that buffet not only pays a long term tax rate, but he also gets the advantage of writing off his loses. In addition, there are even greater benefits in real estate and other income earning assets that are write offs for the wealthiest Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
BTW - capital gain tax is not a loophole - they tax gains at a lesser rate to encourage long term investment, growing jobs and the economy - this tax break likely created your job either directly or indirectly. But if the rich were really rigging the system would not their rate be even lower? The many ways the rich get richer is that they work hard and invest - not complain about others making more.
That's what "they" would say is the goal. The long term tax rate was implemented to apply to securities but once hedge funds were started in the 80's, they found a way to classify their income as a long term investment. That loophole was never closed. So the low rate wasn't created specifically for rich, it was created for everyone, but the rich found a way to classify their income into it, not the other way around. Again, just a loophole. I don't think the rich are colluding against the poor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
the tax code is already very progressive. The rich already pay most of the taxes and yet you think they should pay more? It used to be that everyone pays taxes, now less than 50% actually do so. The top 10% already pay 50% of the taxes.
I wish government was smaller and everyone paid less taxes, however I also want the super rich to pay their fair share compared to the average citizen. They simply don't. I will quote this article again for you to understand how these loopholes clearly make it unfair. https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/busines...ary-talk-taxes
Again, it is a fallacy that the rich getting richer makes everyone else poorer. Also the wealthiest 1% don't rig the system, they work hard and invest.
... or they marry into money....twice like John Kerry.
Exactly. You would have to decrease the world's population by several billion people to achieve a decent "universal monthly income." I'm pretty sure billions of people won't volunteer to non-exist, so the millions who are still around can get a universal monthly income.
I'm still racking my brain trying to understand how the efficiencies in economics has anything to do with closing a tax loophole and leveling the playing field. It seems you are misunderstanding my point of view and confusing it with some sort of socialist agenda.
I never said distribute wealth evenly or anything of the sort. I just want a level playing field for the average citizen. If you can't understand my point of view then I don't care to explain it to you. Read my other posts for evidence.
I'm still racking my brain trying to understand how the efficiencies in economics has anything to do with closing a tax loophole and leveling the playing field. It seems you are misunderstanding my point of view and confusing it with some sort of socialist agenda.
I never said distribute wealth evenly or anything of the sort. I just want a level playing field for the average citizen. If you can't understand my point of view then I don't care to explain it to you. Read my other posts for evidence.
I’m still racking my brain trying to understand how tax loopholes have anything to do with preventing one from becoming successful. It seems you're misunderstanding wealth obtainment in a 1st world developed country as a zero sum game and think Elon Musk is “taking away from the pie” that would’ve otherwise been “your piece.” Elon Musk’s pie is not even in your bakery, and your solution is to seize all the bakeries.
There is no “level playing field” that can be legislated. My sister is a high school dropout. I’m a college graduate. Let me guess, having the same parents, school, teachers, upbringing, household, and genetics wasn’t “a level playing field?”
You cannot legislate equal outcome and ambition. Your income power is a reflection of your value to society. When you create a company that employs 1.2 million people, you’ll be a billionaire like Bezos too.
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