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Thread summary:

American ingenuity: mortgage, fuel efficient SUVs, loan, transportation, infrastructure.

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Old 06-22-2008, 09:51 AM
 
345 posts, read 396,381 times
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The downward pressure on truck and SUV value is escalating as people scurry to trade in their guzzlers for more fuel efficient models. Even though the numbers often don't make sense in terms of new loan vs. amount of money saved through better gas mileage, many people engage in herd mentality, and I'm guessing many of these consumers will be adding to their financial hardships needlessly. Guess what all this is going to do to the big threes inventory of gas hogs? Ford already announced delays in roll out of the newest version of one of their hogs, and acres of American trucks collect dust amongst the deflated balloons and streamers on dealership lots. What's in store? - dropping revenue, layoffs, pensions under pressure, and more consolidation of top selling vehicles by Honda, Toyota, etc. With China rapidly increasing their personal motor vehicle ownership rates, guess what vehicles the Chinese will be favoring? Vehicles made by Ford/GM or Asian manufacturers? You know the answer. Tough times for American motor vehicle manufacturers and dealers. There are plenty of Americans leasing gas guzzlers who I bet are contemplating their own version of jingle mail (mailing in the keys and walking away from a mortgage because it's no longer practical to try to stay in the house) because what they pay to lease, and what they pay for fuel makes their lease unbearable and impractical (if they can't get out of it and into a vehicle with better MPG numbers). This is increasing in frequency already? Is anyone really naive enough to think fuel price trends are to decline, or stay high and (even) increase? Honda and Toyota have a big lead. Can American ingenuity save us, or are our best days behind us? Anyone?

Last edited by Ria Rhodes; 06-22-2008 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 06-22-2008, 09:56 AM
 
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If they get cheaper, I might just buy one! And by cheap, I mean REALLY, REALLY cheap...
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Old 06-22-2008, 10:08 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 10,037,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ria Rhodes View Post
The downward pressure on truck and SUV value is escalating as people scurry to trade in their guzzlers for more fuel efficient models. Guess what this is doing/going to do to the big threes inventory of gas hogs? Ford already announced delays in roll out of the newest version of one of their hogs, and acres of their guzzlers collect dust on dealership lots. What's in store? - dropping revenue, layoffs, pensions under pressure, and more consolidation of top selling vehicles by Honda, Toyota, etc. With China rapidly increasing their personal motor vehicle ownership rates, guess what vehicles the Chinese will be favoring? ones made by Ford/GM or Asian manufacturers? You know the answer. Tough times for American motor vehicle manufacturers and dealers. Is anyone really naive enough to think fuel price trends are to decline, or stay high and (even) increase? Honda and Toyota have a big lead. Can American ingenuity save us, or are our best days behind us? Anyone?
In case you have not followed, Toyota is bringing jobs into the US, and Ford is exporting them. We lose a loser when we lose Ford. And gain a winner with Toyota.

When the "American" (in marketing name, only) corporations lost their loyalty to US, We The People should be smart enough to lose our loyalty to them.

Real question along these lines at this point is not a matter of ingenuity, but rather will all or most of US figure that most of the folks at the top end who wrap themselves in the flag are not really our friends?

The ingenuity part will be if We The People are smart enough to abandon oil based ground transportation before it leaves US all broke, stranded, and starving? That part is sort of a real life mass Social Science experiment that we are conducting on ourselves.
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Old 06-22-2008, 10:17 AM
 
345 posts, read 396,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
In case you have not followed, Toyota is bringing jobs into the US, and Ford is exporting them. We lose a loser when we lose Ford. And gain a winner with Toyota.

When the "American" (in marketing name, only) corporations lost their loyalty to US, We The People should be smart enough to lose our loyalty to them.

Real question along these lines at this point is not a matter of ingenuity, but rather will all or most of US figure that most of the folks at the top end who wrap themselves in the flag are not really our friends?

The ingenuity part will be if We The People are smart enough to abandon oil based ground transportation before it leaves US all broke, stranded, and starving? That part is sort of a real life mass Social Science experiment that we are conducting on ourselves.
Preaching to the choir friend, but points well taken. The suburban outposts (requiring long commutes) all over our country, the eroding transportation system, the lack of a comprehensive passenger rail system, an economy largely dependent upon energy resources purchased from countries hostile to our government, a populace that has been long addicted to cheap consumer goods and hedonistic consumption. All this must change in ways that will difficult for us Americans to adjust to. We are not a bad people IMO, but we are in large measure a ethnocentric and self-centered people, and this must start to change for the better.
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Old 06-22-2008, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 3,004,780 times
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Why not sell these vehicles to the developing nations? Instead of letting the European/Asian auto makers dominate them. The massive amounts of construction and development surely has an actual use for them not to mention reduced infrastructure? Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan just have to better target their markets. Trucks in the Montana's and Dakota's where Oil shale and construction is, and the SUVs to the Dubai's, Saudi, and other locations that need that extra "security" :P. Oil in a lot of these places are way under a buck... and they are cash rich.

Basically the marketing folks at Ford/GM need to better target their audience and correct their product mix accordingly. Which they have been doing poorly for quite some time.

-chuck22b
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Old 06-22-2008, 12:13 PM
f_m
 
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Perhaps, but only if the marketing, sales, and accounting people are not in charge. The problem now is partly (or maybe largely) due to the sales end which saw lots of profit in trucks and SUV's. But they didn't see the long term, only short term profit, and now the long term plan isn't in place causing tremendous short term problems.
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Old 06-22-2008, 09:46 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 12,799,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ria Rhodes View Post
The downward pressure on truck and SUV value is escalating as people scurry to trade in their guzzlers for more fuel efficient models. Even though the numbers often don't make sense in terms of new loan vs. amount of money saved through better gas mileage, many people engage in herd mentality, and I'm guessing many of these consumers will be adding to their financial hardships needlessly. Guess what all this is going to do to the big threes inventory of gas hogs? Ford already announced delays in roll out of the newest version of one of their hogs, and acres of American trucks collect dust amongst the deflated balloons and streamers on dealership lots. What's in store? - dropping revenue, layoffs, pensions under pressure, and more consolidation of top selling vehicles by Honda, Toyota, etc. With China rapidly increasing their personal motor vehicle ownership rates, guess what vehicles the Chinese will be favoring? Vehicles made by Ford/GM or Asian manufacturers? You know the answer. Tough times for American motor vehicle manufacturers and dealers. There are plenty of Americans leasing gas guzzlers who I bet are contemplating their own version of jingle mail (mailing in the keys and walking away from a mortgage because it's no longer practical to try to stay in the house) because what they pay to lease, and what they pay for fuel makes their lease unbearable and impractical (if they can't get out of it and into a vehicle with better MPG numbers). This is increasing in frequency already? Is anyone really naive enough to think fuel price trends are to decline, or stay high and (even) increase? Honda and Toyota have a big lead. Can American ingenuity save us, or are our best days behind us? Anyone?
[SIZE=2]
A fascinating post.

Overall, I think american ingenuity is still in place. Mostly because we have so many entrepreneurs with fresh ideas. That’s the good part.

The bad part is that there is so much against them any more. Patent sharks feint legal action against many new & innovative ideas, so they stay shut up. Also, with so much corporate greed & politics and other minor entities running against such ideas, it again tends to stifle american ingenuity.

However, in the end, the good guys will have their say. It’ll just take a little longer.
[/SIZE][SIZE=4][/SIZE]
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,766 posts, read 17,216,239 times
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Philip T wrote:
Real question along these lines at this point is not a matter of ingenuity, but rather will all or most of US figure that most of the folks at the top end who wrap themselves in the flag are not really our friends?

This applies to just about everything, not just to automobiles.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,874,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ria Rhodes View Post
The downward pressure on truck and SUV value is escalating as people scurry to trade in their guzzlers for more fuel efficient models. Even though the numbers often don't make sense in terms of new loan vs. amount of money saved through better gas mileage, many people engage in herd mentality, and I'm guessing many of these consumers will be adding to their financial hardships needlessly. Guess what all this is going to do to the big threes inventory of gas hogs? Ford already announced delays in roll out of the newest version of one of their hogs, and acres of American trucks collect dust amongst the deflated balloons and streamers on dealership lots. What's in store? - dropping revenue, layoffs, pensions under pressure, and more consolidation of top selling vehicles by Honda, Toyota, etc. With China rapidly increasing their personal motor vehicle ownership rates, guess what vehicles the Chinese will be favoring? Vehicles made by Ford/GM or Asian manufacturers? You know the answer. Tough times for American motor vehicle manufacturers and dealers. There are plenty of Americans leasing gas guzzlers who I bet are contemplating their own version of jingle mail (mailing in the keys and walking away from a mortgage because it's no longer practical to try to stay in the house) because what they pay to lease, and what they pay for fuel makes their lease unbearable and impractical (if they can't get out of it and into a vehicle with better MPG numbers). This is increasing in frequency already? Is anyone really naive enough to think fuel price trends are to decline, or stay high and (even) increase? Honda and Toyota have a big lead. Can American ingenuity save us, or are our best days behind us? Anyone?
Ford and GM are the past and Toyota and Honda are the future of cars in America- and most of the world. The American car makers did it to themselves. They made a choice to bet the farm on monster SUVs and trucks and- for a decade- the bet worked. But now times are different. They can either change with the times or keep making cars people won't buy except at a "no profit" price.
Now can American ingenuity save us? It always has in the past but probably not this time. We do not have the "ingenuity" we used to have. We are dumbed down as a country. We could not even learn the metric system. The rest of the world has moved on. Most of our greatest inventors and scientist of the past - Saulk, Diesel, Edison and others like them were immigrants that came from places where they had no opportunity to the Land of Opportunity- America. But now the best and brightest do not need to come here. They have great opportunities at home- in China, India and other emerging superpowers. And that is where most of the ingenuity will come from in the future.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:48 PM
 
48,509 posts, read 86,079,672 times
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Not in the short term ;crude will be the fuel for decades to come.
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