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Old 06-30-2009, 01:11 PM
 
9 posts, read 23,247 times
Reputation: 17

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In reply to Scube Steve...

Thanks for the advise. I have never written in a forum before I googled "Amway" a few weeks back and can across all these statements.
[SIZE=2]Regarding the pyramid comment. Show me a large organization that isn't structured like a pyramid? Our churches are, are government is, our military is, most corporations are structured like pyramids. It's called the hierarchy of leadership and that is how all organizations are structured. A president on the top, then some VP's, then management, then some middle management and then employees on the bottom. If the employees don't perform, the president isn't business business. The biggest difference between the cooperate pyramid and the Amway business model is that an individual needs someone's permission to move up the ladder in a cooperation. In the Amway business anyone can succeed to any level that desire if they are willing to do the work. Success in Amway is based on performance. You have to realize that this Amway business is completely neutral. It's just an opportunity. It's the individual involved in the business that will make it great or a failure because they wont do what it takes to succeed and then call it a get rich quick scam. If anyone thinks that the Amway or any Multilevel business will get you rich over night, you are mistaken. These types of businesses are meant to be build at first to supplement your income and then with consistent effort, over time can replace your income. Then you are left with time + money. Which = Choices! In the end, isn't that what it's al about. Doing what you want, when you want, with who you want. Last time I checked the average 40 hour a week job doesn't allow that. It's all good. MLM's aren't for everyone. But, you must admit that it's the individual that make a business great. not the business.[/SIZE]
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Old 07-04-2009, 10:48 AM
 
9 posts, read 23,247 times
Reputation: 17
Default How is it a bad deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
A bad deal by any other name is still a bad deal.
I have a questions for you, if you don't mind.Tell me what you think about this deal? You know the 40/40 club.[SIZE=2] 40 hours a week for 40 years in a job, hoping to retire by 65 with enough money to live out the rest of your years comfortably. I was so shocked to find that 98% of people on that 40/40 plan do NOT make it to 65 with enough to retire. If only 2% do. My question is, why are the masses following a plan that so few make work? What do you think?[/SIZE]


[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:56 PM
 
7 posts, read 16,743 times
Reputation: 12
I usually don't waste my time posting on forums, but I was definitely inspired by Well Informed. Your perseverance is amazing. You're going to be huge!

Now, as I post, I want to clarify a many misconceptions about the Amway business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by broadbill View Post
Actually, no. The principle of Time value of money tells me that my time is better spend at home on the weekends with my family instead of out there pounding the pavement making sales to support my upline. The only way somebody makes any money in MLM is to develop a downline. The problem with the upline/downline business model is that when the music stops, somebody is left with their d*ck in their hands. In MLM, thats the guy at the end of the downline.
I definitely agree with the principle of Time value money, and the initial opportunity cost of building the Amway business. But a lot of people compare the time spent building the Amway business to pleasure, where you have to compare it to your job. Yes, I'd rather spend my time with my family, but I would rather fore go 2 years of that so I have the rest of my life to spend with my family, free from a job.

Now, in Amway, you don't have to have downline to make money. Instead, we offer a pro-suming model that has no downline, and yet is still able to make a considerable amount of money - in fact, its more profitable than having downline.

Quote:
Yeah, who? Can I see their finances? I'd really like to see how much profit they clear after they take into account the compensation they pay to their upline, after they buy their motivational tapes, and after they attend all of those "business meetings". Where is the transparency with Amway? Why is everything such a big secret? What are they hiding?
I'm very glad to post my finances. But before I do that I don't want to use money to motivate you.

My very, very first 6 months, as a semi-active IBO (independent business owner) annual report and taxes to the CRA (I live in canada) are as follows:

Performance bonus: $2155.02
Gross profit: $2464.70
New IBO Incentive: $150.00
Purchases: -$2675.39

Profit: $2094.33

On top of that, as a paramedic, I pay approximately $12000/yr to taxes, but the tax benefits of owning a sole proprietorship business offered me enough tax deductions (cellphone, property tax, utilities, vehicle depreciation, dinners, gas etc) that I only had to pay the CRA this year ~$2400. I'm happy I saved my tax dollars, and on top of that, made that average ~$350/month.

Quote:
Again with the propaganda...success can be measured. Can you show me the success of these people? Again, Why is everything with these MLM schemes so secret?
The avg success rate is actually posted publicly, and a requirement to show all prospective business builders. I'll quote it here:

"
The average monthly gross income for "active" ...IBO was $181 CDN.

*Approximately 66% of all IBOS were found to be "active".
*Active IBO's: Based on an independent survey during 2001, "active" means an IBO who attempted to make a retail sale or presented the Marketing Plan, or received bonus money, or attended a company meeting or IBO meeting in the year 2000
*Gross Income ... ... (not going to quote it, as its a long and detailed, but essentially its the profit from retail sale minus cost of goods sold plus amount of performance bonus retained, personal expenses not included)
"

Quote:
Of course I would drive a Ford if I owned a Ford dealership, but that isn't the point. Car dealerships buy the cars they sell on their lots direct from the factory at a wholesale price. As an IBO, why can't I buy my product at wholesale directly from Amway instead of going through my upline?
I don't like to use the car dealership analogy, but if I were to use it, its not the car dealership I'm comparing. Its the salesman I would use. I would not buy a ford from a ford salesmen if he drives a chevy.

As for purchasing products, we do buy it directly from Amway Global, at a wholesale cost. Quixtar and Amway operate differently. When it was Amway, we had to pick up from out upline 'Platinum'. Now we haven't had to do so for many many years.

Quote:
Why does my upline get a share of my profits when I make a sale?

That is my main issue with MLM...your upline makes money when you make money although your upline had nothing to do with you making the sale. All they did was recruit you into the business. Why do they get a cut?
As a sponsor and upline to many people, we don't make a share of your profits. On top of that, we don't even make a cut. If u sold someone a product, u retain the retail profit, and you also retain the performance bonus.

What I think you're confused with is the compensation plan. It is difficult to go through without drawing it out, but essentially it is a differential - which gives the option of those who started 'at the bottom' of the chain as you put it, the option of making more money than those at the top.

Quote:
Don't you think it would be in Amway's best interest to distribute these so-called educational material for FREE? You would think they would want their distributors to be well informed about they products they sell? I know for a FACT that every manufacturer unloads COPIOUS amounts of promotional material onto their distributors and retailers about their products. They fly their distributors/retailers out for meetings to learn about the latest and greatest with their products. Now: Why does Amway CHARGE their retailers for their promo material...what a ripoff!!!

I have a feeling, however, that very little of those materials talk about about the product themselves. Its probably a bunch of propaganda, much of which you've posted in this thread!
Amway does not actually produce, nor distribute educational materials. On top of that, whatever Amway does produce and distribute is actually free. On top of that, when Amway does send us tapes and informative material, it is free, and it is about the products.

The tapes and CD's that attain this negativity are actually produced, manufactured, and distributed by respective organizations - Its like a car sales lot, different franchises of the same car company do things differently, but still adhere to the overall company business practices. These may talk about products, or they may talk about how to make a profitable business, or they may talk about the life before and after this business and the hardships - there are many categories for one to choose from.

The tapes and CD's are optional. Infact, the tapes and CD's that are distributed in my organization are all free. I do not charge my group anything, nor have I been charged, anything.

Quote:
Quick web search show redbull at $1.33/can. Can Amway's product beat that? How much profit do you make on selling Amway's product versus what you could make on Redbull? Ever think to do that calculation?
Retail wise, perhaps we can't beat that Redbull price. But did you factor in convenience cost? The cost of driving out to the store, picking up the product, and driving back, carrying it inside? Time cost? What about those who are not locally close to the store - the cost goes up. If its shipped, great - but is there P&D?
What about product quality, taste, and benefits? Redbull for fact, cannot compete with XS energy drinks in those areas. If you've tried our product, and still prefer redbull's variety and taste, then I urge you to stick with it - but have you looked at your other options is the idea.

If I was an IBO, and I looked at a comparable product, whether it be Tide, Centrum, Redbull or what may be, if its the same price, I would still purchase from Amway - simply because I will support what supports me, on top of that, XS gives me points on the back end, which converts to cash akin to a rebate. Does safeway, wal-mart, costco, superstore, all these department stores, do that?

Quote:
If Amway's vitamins are of superior quality to other vitamins, how come Amway hasn't pushed to get their brand into every grocery and pharmacy in the US? If they are as good as you say they, then everybody would be standing in line to buy them.

Why does Amway choose to distribute their product through a convoluted and cumbersome supply chain?
As we do direct shipping, I believe the 2nd part of this objection is clarified.

As for the first part, lets say I'm an owner of a wal mart - what determines a customer coming to my wal mart as opposed to another wal mart in the city? Convenience. On top of that, there is no exclusivity + associated costs of distribution. How is Amway consistently able to research, patent their products, and still maintain a competitive edge + incredible bonuses and incentives? Because if we did what you just suggested, the costs in the chains of distribution to all these areas would increase fixed and variable costs, driving product cost up, and eliminating the people saving money and time and convenience


Quote:
That is a topic for a whole another discussion, but you are the clearly misinformed here. If the recent credit crisis has taught us anything it that A) people routinely spend more than they earn and B) Do not understand the fundamentals of personal finance, including how to calculate interest rates, evaluate break even points, and how to save money and invest wisely. I'm sure you also do not have a firm grasp of these principles if you think MLMs constitute a sound business model!
If people did understand it, Amway would be the global dominance in the retail market chain. I highly recommend reading and attending Robert Kiosake's seminars, as they'll put a professional perspective as to why that is.

Quote:
Change is change...there are good changes and bad changes...true wisdom comes with being able to tell the difference between the two!
I whole heartedly agree. And I'd like to add

its not the truth that sets you free, its the knowledge of the truth that sets you free.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:11 PM
 
7 posts, read 16,743 times
Reputation: 12
For the last financial comment, I highly recommend researching into the development, history, and changes to the 401K and what our educational institutes have done to accommodate for that. 1970-1971 - changes in how money now works and how it relates to our present social security network. Retirement plans (RRSP's - CAN), Mutual funds and how they ACTUALLY work (such as management fees and liquidity). As for this current credit crisis, I'd look into the why the sub-prime happened, auctioned mortgaged housing (the now upcoming 2nd part of the residential problems -> those who did not qualify for the sub-prime). And then my favorite, topic, US healthcare in terms of retirement, such as nursing homes etc.
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: The Milky Way Galaxy
2,256 posts, read 6,206,747 times
Reputation: 1516
Check out this news article on this done a few years ago when it was beginning:
In pursuit of the almighty dollar - Consumer Alert- msnbc.com

I almost bought into this scheme...went to one of their seminars in the beginning where they have excellent persuasive speakers and are very clever in there questions and answers to you. Its funny because looking back, the speaker at the seminar basically told me nothing except I'm a loser for going to my current job.

I hope all of you STEER CLEAR from this corporation. My friend who almost got me into it 4 years ago just cut his losses and got out recently. He spent over $3,000 in books, products, and travel to conferences and made a total of about $300. I know this is only one example but the web is a powerful tool these days. While they say don't believe everything you read on the web, if you see enough of the same testimonies from analysts and former IBO's, its more than enough to make you stay away. Their products are not that great either and more expensive than what you would buy your regular items for at a supermarket. Amway, quixtar, whatever....its the same thieving corporation. I can't stress enough to stay away from this. They make it sound so good and so enticing but fight it off.

"You can put lipstick on a pig, but in the end its still a pig"
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,334,594 times
Reputation: 1295
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminiGal View Post
Normally I don't watch a lot of TV, especially on weekends. I was quite alarmed to find that Amway (Quixtar) is airing a variety of commercials - one promoting their kids vitamins and another regarding their "business." I mentioned this to a friend as well and he had heard they were also airing commercials in China as well.

I don't really know what to think: Are they ...
a) Finally giving up and coming "out" so to speak?
b) Preying on Americans as they face hard financial times?
c) Tapping into global market looking for new victims?
d) All of the above

Needless to say I'm not a fan and I've known a couple (too many) folks that have been in the "business".

Has anyone else seen the commercials? Any thoughts?
I saw them. It looks to be another scam to get stupid people to buy and sell their products without Amyway having to pay a middle man to do so. It's just what the candy companies try to do with our school children. Are these the new jobs Obama is talking about?
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Colorado
19,135 posts, read 5,166,654 times
Reputation: 5777
In the 70's we were contacted by a friend of an aquaintance who told us how wonderful Amway products were. He gave me a box with deteregent and other cleaners to use, also telling me to get some people to come to a meeting. I put the box aside and forgot about it. About a week later he called and wanted to know about scheduling a meeting and I told him we weren't interested. He seemed shocked and said he would come by and pick up the box of products. Never was I asked how I liked the Amway cleaners, it was just a way to set up more people to join.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:49 PM
 
Location: The Milky Way Galaxy
2,256 posts, read 6,206,747 times
Reputation: 1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by pekemom View Post
In the 70's we were contacted by a friend of an aquaintance who told us how wonderful Amway products were. He gave me a box with deteregent and other cleaners to use, also telling me to get some people to come to a meeting. I put the box aside and forgot about it. About a week later he called and wanted to know about scheduling a meeting and I told him we weren't interested. He seemed shocked and said he would come by and pick up the box of products. Never was I asked how I liked the Amway cleaners, it was just a way to set up more people to join.
Wow they've been around since the 70's! I guess as long as they keep suckering people they'll always be around. Notice you don't see any supermarket selling there items. I'm not even sure they are FDA approved...althought they probably are.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:29 PM
 
11,263 posts, read 44,988,755 times
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Not just since the '70's ... I had acquaintances in college in the 1960's who were trying to get me to sign up for "the plan" ....

Yeah, right. The minimum monthly product quantity was far in excess of what I, a single college student, could use in many months.
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Old 07-14-2009, 12:03 AM
 
7 posts, read 16,743 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgt04 View Post
Wow they've been around since the 70's! I guess as long as they keep suckering people they'll always be around. Notice you don't see any supermarket selling there items. I'm not even sure they are FDA approved...althought they probably are.
If you read my post above, you'll know that by selling in supermarkets violates exclusivity, as well as up-ing the price due to chains in distribution.

You should read the book Household gold by Dr. Steve Price. Its about the shift in household equity. Or I'm sure you can youtube it too for the summary of the book.

Quixtar has been in operation since 1999, Amway since 1959 - once again, the way they operate is completely different.
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