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Old 06-27-2008, 08:45 PM
 
69,360 posts, read 57,147,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
You actually think that community gardens can produce enough food to feed NYC? Ha, thats good..
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:59 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,766,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
You actually think that community gardens can produce enough food to feed NYC? Ha, thats good..
you didnt bother to read all those links. Do research and then come back to me with intelligent arguments.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:17 PM
Rei
 
Location: Los Angeles
494 posts, read 1,649,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelmate38 View Post
Nothing but bad news folks and getting worse, much worse by the day. Something evil is brewing in this market, worldwide for that matter. The mass layoffs coming over the next 6 months will be unlike any of us have seen in our lifetimes.

Oil is all but now guaranteed to spike past $170 this year and probably won't stop there.

Airlines will go belly up laying off 100,000s of workers.

Trucking companies shutting down and or refusing to transport goods.

Banks are now on the verge of going under. Many financial institutions have sell and strong sell ratings on banks. I'm talking major US banks.This will lead to bank failures, as well as tens of thousands of job losses. When banks start going under, watch out people, you know it is bad then!

I traveled across the country these past 3-weeks, coast to coast. All the typical touristy areas are dead, quiet and businesses are beginning to close, one by one.

Repos spiking nationwide.

Stock market collapsing and the worse it yet to come. Try Dow 7000 on for size. I beleive it will happen

All energy costs are doubling, some almost annually.

GM, Ford, Chrysler, all just rated as strong sells with credit failures expected! They will all go under over the next 18 months, leading to over 1 millions layoffs worldwide.

Dollar still sinking

Food and basic daily living expenses up 30% and rising by the minute.

Remember, all these factors and the hundreds more I did not mention, trickle down into all aspects of the economy and WILL affect you, not matter what profession you work in.

I get the feeling we are in for a huge depression in this country and perhaps worldwide for that matter. I've followed investing and the markets for decades and this is not the typical bump in the road folks. Feel free to disagree, but I believe we are right in the mists of a financial meltdown.
It's a scary thought... but perhaps in that case we can all migrate to China or India for jobs. The world will turn upside down...
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,429 posts, read 5,807,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei View Post
It's a scary thought... but perhaps in that case we can all migrate to China or India for jobs. The world will turn upside down...
Perhaps we can do their lawn work and some construction. Just make sure you get your visa.
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:45 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,766,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei View Post
It's a scary thought... but perhaps in that case we can all migrate to China or India for jobs. The world will turn upside down...
there was a piece on NPR about managerial people from America going to work over in India. Interesting times.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:29 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,957,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
And your proposing that they will put farms in the middle of downtown NYC? Dont think so. When they continue to truck food in from other countries, I hardly expect trucking it in from the farms in the middle of nowhere is at risk..

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, most cities lay within thirty miles of most major cities there is more than enough farm land to provide for those people. Thing is, with the cost of transportation being as cheap as it USED TO BE, most of our food was imported from places like Mexico where labor is cheaper. Now, with the price of transportation skyrocketing and people no longer wanting to turn America's farm lands into condoes from which to commute long hours from, the American farm might actually make a come-back! Imagine all that farm land in Upstate New York being, once again, FARM LAND and the food being delivered by train or, more likely, short-range electric-powered trucks (just to the city, recharge there, and head back upstate) That is what a post-peak oil future looks like.

the more I think about it, the more I'm looking forward to the inevitable 15 dollars a gallon.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:32 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,957,423 times
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Originally Posted by TexianPatriot View Post
If it gets that bad, I'll just produce for myself and my family. Men aren't meant to live crammed together like sardines. Not me anyway. I'll gladly watch people flock to the cities. Maybe land values will finally fall cheap enough for me to secure a nice place for a reasonable amount of cash. Land ownership=freedom.

Yes, land ownership and the capitalist system is freedom...as a result of that freedom, less and less people will be able to afford to own a big house an hour away from their job.

Like I said, I am free to buy a castle on a mountain from which to engage in all my magickal/alchemical experiments in style, but alas, I don't have the money. If you can afford it, you can live in the exclusive suburbs that are on their way...if you can't, than you, me, and everyone else will have to adjust.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:46 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,957,423 times
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Originally Posted by karkyco View Post
It's our "exurbs" that are taking the hit. That article was pretty accurate in regards to the future for LA, in fact, you can use LA as the perfect example. However, in our case it is not the local suburbs, but the exurbs that will face serious problems.

During the real estate run up, you had the most desirable areas, prime housing real estate along the coasts/beaches, higher elevation/areas with views, and affluent/exclusive neithborhoods continue to fuel demand (along with key commercial/income property and locations), with the nearby alternatives running up as well. This caused a domino effect on nearby but not so good neighborhoods, as the only affordable alternative for the rich-but-not-rich-enough. And so on and so on, until the ghetto areas that saw white flight in the 60's and 70's began to be gentrified, including the inner city and near to downtown areas get gentrified.

Where did the low income and ghetto people that used to live here move to (or get forcibly relocated to?) - the newly (over)built and 'affordable' exurbs of the high desert, San Bernadino, Riverside, etc.

Exactly. Thing is, as people move away from the distant "exurbs" and income local-suburbs, they will become more crowded and people will demand zoning laws change and more mass-transit and pow! Instant (almost) village.
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Old 06-27-2008, 11:03 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,957,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
Men have been living in cities congested for centuries. Just go to Egypt and look at their old cities. Go to Rome or look at lay outs of ancient Ido (present day Tokyo).

This suburban thing is the thing that's new, not cities and living in close proximity. You did have small villages (which existed along side congested cities) back in the day but, those were self sustaining systems were people provided their own food and had their own industries. Suburbs generally dont have ANY of that. They generally have workers commuting into work and food is trucked in from miles away. It is a extremely inefficient system.

Suburbs need to transform into how old villages used to be (and still are in much of the world). Self contained with the ability to provide for itself.

THANK YOU! The modern Suburbian nightmere dates back to the 1940s...villages and cities date back to about 4,000 B.C. Which do you think is probably a more sustainable model, one that has been with us for sixty years, or one that has been with us for 6,000?

The future: Within the City proper (downtown) office buidlings, cultural centers, entertainment, and jobs. Outside of downtown, the wealthy in highrises. Outside of the City, Satellite cities and towns (villages) for the middle-class linked to the big city by mass-transit. We are already seeing this with Bellvue and Seattle and Portland and Vancouver. Ten miles and beyond away from mass-transit availability, lower-income people (but not super-poor) over twenty miles away from mass-transit availability, slums, empty no-man's lands, and the occassional enclave of the wealthy in a gated-community.
Past the slums and gated-communities, farmlands. Past the farmlands, nothing much except nature until you get to the next city-system.

Sounds like a nice, sane, sustainable model to me. Best part is, it will be here soon enough! All we have to do is sit back and let the beautiful free-market undo the suburbian mistake.
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Old 06-27-2008, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 15,403,590 times
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The suburban way of life is not going away. Most people I know consider it anti-American to suggest everybody should live in cities. The suburban dream is woven into American culture so deeply that its become what being an American is all about. It will take a few generations to change that mindset. City-data is NOT an accurate representation of middle America and the type of living they prefer.
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