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Old 06-28-2008, 03:01 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,766,746 times
Reputation: 2073

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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
My concept of capitalism is more than just lack of socialism. Capitalism is a system in which competition is encourages by government, and government acts as a referee for the sport of profit through transparency, a republic system, and individual liberites.

Also, the free-market only works if the individual is granted universal freedoms...the press, speech, assembly, the right to bear arms etc.

Example: Unions are a form of Capitalism. It is a group of people forming a private organization (a union) to negotiate the sale of a commodity they own (their labor) to a buyer (the company). They can refuse to sell (strike) and use freedom of speech (protest) if the terms of negotiation are unacceptable.

However, America has been slowly changed into a syndicalist thanks to a handful of fools in charge.

Capitalism, at it's best, is an awful system...it is, however, allot better than any of the other systems.
I see what you mean. I don't agree that capitalism is the best though, but these are matters of opinion.
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Old 06-28-2008, 06:36 PM
 
9,638 posts, read 24,384,528 times
Reputation: 5304
Victorian Punk,
Please educate me: Give me the names of those Neocon members of the Bush administration and which Trotskyite organization they belonged to.

And...don't people change? Jim Webb is the Democratic Senator from Virginia. He used to be a Republican, and was Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan. So, according to your logic, he's still a Republican?
A true socialist believes that private property is theft. So how can one be a NEocon and a socialist at the same time?
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Old 06-28-2008, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,933 posts, read 6,975,108 times
Reputation: 5506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira500 View Post
Victorian Punk,
Please educate me: Give me the names of those Neocon members of the Bush administration and which Trotskyite organization they belonged to.

And...don't people change? Jim Webb is the Democratic Senator from Virginia. He used to be a Republican, and was Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan. So, according to your logic, he's still a Republican?
A true socialist believes that private property is theft. So how can one be a NEocon and a socialist at the same time?
It's all semantics. This country is a welfare state. A terrible mix of corporatism and socialism. We subsidize the poor for not working and making babies, we subsidize borrowers that can’t afford to stay in their homes, we subsidize illegal aliens, we subsidize wall street banks for “economic stability”, we subsidize farmers to not grow crops, we subsidize a failing public school system, we subsidize the pockets of the bureaucrats and their campaign backers, we subsidize oil companies, we subsidize alternative energy, we subsidize other nations, we subsidize the illuminati members that run the federal reserve, we subsidize far too many federal government employees, we subsidize defense contracters, and we subsidize Americans at the expense of their grand children.

If you are poor or well connected, this system is great. If you’re an average tax paying middle American, the system is screwing you over. I find it all quite disgusting. I suppose that's why I decided to quit paying the income tax (most of which goes directly to the federal reserve share holders). Where is our generation's Sons of Liberty? Where is our Boston Tea Party? Where is our great protest? Where are the patriots?

Last edited by Philosophizer; 06-28-2008 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:40 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,957,423 times
Reputation: 3454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira500 View Post
Victorian Punk,
Please educate me: Give me the names of those Neocon members of the Bush administration and which Trotskyite organization they belonged to.
Irving Kristol, father of the Neocon movement and the father of fox news analyst and Bill Kristol, said that he was "proud" to have been in the Fourth International, a Troskyte organization. Flirting with Fascism


George W. Bush recently gave him a medal of freedom...


Quote:
And...don't people change? Jim Webb is the Democratic Senator from Virginia. He used to be a Republican, and was Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan. So, according to your logic, he's still a Republican?
A true socialist believes that private property is theft. So how can one be a NEocon and a socialist at the same time?

It is not that they are ex-socialist that I have an issue with (I was a card-carrying member of the Socialist Party USE [the Eugene Debs party] until I saw the light) What I have issue with is their using Troskyte ideas to influence American foreign policy. It is not that they are "ex-reds" but that they are the next stage of Troskyte evolution and they are INFLUENCING THE POLICIES OF THE USA.

Trosky, Tito, they FAILED, and their influences should be...exuse the term, purged, from American policy making....I'll let the big man explain it better
YouTube - Why Bill Kristol calls Ron Paul a 'crackpot'
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:18 AM
 
9,638 posts, read 24,384,528 times
Reputation: 5304
A lot of people have been killed in the name of Christ. So you think Christ's "influence" should be purged?
Do you think Trotsky would be proud of his former supporters espousing policies that go completely against his philosophies?
I'm not defending Trotsky in the least, or comparing him to Christ,but I think it's more a case of his former followers completely twisting his beliefs to suit their twisted neocon philosophies.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:03 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,957,423 times
Reputation: 3454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira500 View Post
A lot of people have been killed in the name of Christ. So you think Christ's "influence" should be purged?
Do you think Trotsky would be proud of his former supporters espousing policies that go completely against his philosophies?
I'm not defending Trotsky in the least, or comparing him to Christ,but I think it's more a case of his former followers completely twisting his beliefs to suit their twisted neocon philosophies.


Trosky believed that imperialism, if "progressive" in nature, was a good thing. If a stronger nation went into a weaker one and "liberated" it's populace by force, than it's a good thing...what do you think they tried to do in Iraq?

If you study Trosky's ideas, you'll see that Bush and his goons are indeed following them. Ideas like imperialism are poisionous, for America and the world, and they should indeed be purged in favor of non-aggression and open dialoge
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Oriental, NC
917 posts, read 2,124,476 times
Reputation: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraAZ View Post


No, I personally don't see anything good in the future. As far as this manipulated market goes, ain't got no clue no more... Just look at the headlines in subsequent days... sometimes the same day! Stocks rally because oil is up one day; stocks in the drain because oil is up the next day. A few days ago stocks rallied because consumer confidence was at 16-year low! They don't even listen to their own BS within a DAY!

The bottom line is the goal is the murder of the middle class and its achievement has been greatly accelerated lately and the process will continue until we're reduced to a 3rd world country.
I totally agree, but what I don't understand is WHY. Who stands to gain by the loss of the middleclass and the U.S. becoming a third world country? I have wondered about this for a long time and I hope someone can enlighten me.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:41 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 4,757,208 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Actually you are stealing from the American consumer at the pump. You are a huge part of whats wrong with this economy.

All of that aside, 25% unemployment by Jan 2010 is almost a sure thing.

what a load of nonsense. if we lack the foresight and courage to vote responsible leaders in to power, then you cannot blame some individuals for wanting to hedge their hard earned money with goods of intrinsic value
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:55 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 4,757,208 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelmate38 View Post
I've been predicting a Dow bottom of 7000 by 2010. That is when I might consider jumping back in. things are bad this go round, very bad and getting worse by the hour.
i wouldn't jump in the market at any time. i am predicting that these overweight corporations are going to be overrun by smaller, more efficient and manoeverable sme's. the days when company's can have layer upon layer of management, low productivity, poor customer service and retention, zero profit, continuous losses, chapter 11's, fed bailouts, government protection, concessions and subsidies, and still remain in business, are a thing of the past....

.......at least that is what i stay up praying for.

bring back the days when everyone competed on a level playing field!
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:48 AM
 
55,137 posts, read 43,954,649 times
Reputation: 34480
Quote:
Originally Posted by car54 View Post
I'm 56 years old and for 36 of those years a Republican was in the White House. Who elected them? Your "seniors" did.

Turn off Limbaugh, man....don't let some fat-assed drug addict do your thinking for you.
The US government is not run by one person (oh that pesky congress and senate) and the main difference between democrats and republicans is in what they say. What they actually do renders them much much closer than most people realize.
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