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Old 06-26-2008, 11:09 PM
 
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While that might not look great, keep in mind that it's not residential street. It's a main street filled with businesses and 3 lanes to accommodate traffic. It works for me. What should it look like? Maybe the KFC and Taco Bell should be on top of the the Exxon gas station? Shall we put a Macy in the space we just saved? Perhaps having 3 lanes is waste a of space. How about we cut that down to 2 lanes and let traffic slows to a crawl?
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Tucson
42,835 posts, read 80,559,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
While that might not look great, keep in mind that it's not residential street. It's a main street filled with businesses and 3 lanes to accommodate traffic. It works for me. What should it look like? Maybe the KFC and Taco Bell should be on top of the the Exxon gas station? Shall we put a Macy in the space we just saved? Perhaps having 3 lanes is waste of space. How about we cut that down to 2 lanes and let traffic slows to a crawl?
The problem is in many "cities" that's what most of the city streets look like. This is supposedly (not sure - it's not like I can identify every "landmark" like Circle K) Ina Rd. in Tucson. Not much different, is it? And Ina is by no means a bad street in comparison to many others.



http://lh3.ggpht.com/_q4w88_wvneU/Ry...0/DSCN1898.jpg

If you find nothing wrong with these pictures, there's really no need for further disussion as it will be waste of time for all participants.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:28 PM
 
6,342 posts, read 8,948,180 times
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Originally Posted by silverwing View Post
Meh. A Harley. What is that - a Softail? For gawd's sake, don't be putting the "potato-potato" exhaust on it, you'll have people in your "village" shrilling about the noise.

I had a whole paragraph laid out .. it's the same in the scooter world (of which I've been a part for years) where those getting into that market because of gas prices think they have to have a Vespa; feeling more compelled to spend a lot for a little; making us more experienced scooterists roll our eyes . It's even the same argument "they hold their value". But it comes down to "each to their own", so whatever makes you happy, have fun on your ride

Back to the original thread .... The Atlantic Monthly recently published an article that has spread all over the blogger world
The Next Slum?

FYI, I've wanted a Harley sense I was a kid. Only gas prices have made me decide that once my Caddy is used up, I will indeed be riding a hog. Ohh, and that's a street bike, and it's not nearly as noisy as one of the big boys.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:31 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,319,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
While that might not look great, keep in mind that it's not residential street. It's a main street filled with businesses and 3 lanes to accommodate traffic. It works for me.
It could be more aesthetically pleasing; a move that some communities are imposing. How about having the signs lower and more conforming? Low landscaping (no, not the kind that makes people have to pull half-way out into the road to see around obstructing trees) to break up the lines and squares of the route.

That hodge-podge of varying heights, colors and shapes makes for a stressful mess. It's no wonder that there are probably some who develop road rage because they can't get turned into the KFC for a bucket of wings. And, btw, when was that picture taken? $2.49 for gas?
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Tucson
42,835 posts, read 80,559,554 times
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Originally Posted by silverwing View Post
And, btw, when was that picture taken? $2.49 for gas?
LOL, perhaps we should find some pics featuring 99c gas. I felt quite nostalgic coming across some old credit card bills from only 10 years ago and remembering fondly how my tank got filled up and my car washed (yep, $2)! for $13-$14. We're doing grrrreat! If our president says so, it must be true.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:43 PM
 
655 posts, read 756,960 times
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Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Like I JUST SAID, I am not talking about living downtown, but living in a small town close to (as in less twenty miles or less) and and close to a big city. This is a place I would raise a family in ( it worked for the Cosbys) and is a place I AM envious of, not some American Beauty-eque nightmere:


Imagine that, times 10,000,000, and you have the future of America, not some development that contibutes to depression, teenage drug-use (not much else to do in the 'burbs, and parents have such a long commute compared to kids they have all the time in the world to get stone) alientation (must people in suburbs don't know they're neighbors) and no community what-so-ever, while VILLAGES (again, not downtown) are the ideal place to raise a family.


This: http://bp1.blogger.com/_i8YmC41u0qE/R2Lkxyr602I/AAAAAAAABcY/g_gCGGX8HAE/s400/Sprawl.jpg (broken link)

Or this:





You decide.


Ohh, and no matter how you think, when gas hits fifteen dollars a gallon ( within the decade, IT IS A GUARANTEE) you will no longer be able to do the hour commute, and neither will anyone else, so, good-buy to the great suburbian mistake and hello to "The Shire" next to "the City".

In the words of my heroes: " Resistance is Futile"


Also, the "I want my own yard!" thing you said is part of the problem. Your own yard...where your kids can play by themselves and not socialize with other kids except maybe a few friends they have over for "play dates". In the future, almost no one will have a yard and instead, they'll be more parks where kids can play together, meet other kids, and actually form a community, and areas where adults can sit around in communal sidewalk cafe type places and actually (gasp!) talk to their neighbors, as opposed to "Barbequing" in the backyard while yelling at the misses and never seeing a neighbor except maybe to yell across the fence.

Quotes on BBQ because the REAL practice involves burying a pig in a smoking pit for a day or two, while Americans call simply "grilling" barbequing.
You're leaving one minor equation out in your THEORY (and that is all it is) American ingenuity. If you think for one second that Americans and all it's mighty corporate appeal are going sit by and do nothing while fuel prices soar to $12-$15 per gallon, you are sadly mistaken. The suburbs are what "feed the beast" and how American's like and want to live. Corporate American and American ingenuity will find alternative methods for this lifestyle to be maintained and preserved in American.

My only suggestion, is that if your European lovin butt, desires to live in a little cardboard box and under a fake socialist umbrella, then immigrate there. We Americans will have none of it.
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Old 06-27-2008, 12:21 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,319,988 times
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Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
FYI, I've wanted a Harley sense I was a kid. Only gas prices have made me decide that once my Caddy is used up, I will indeed be riding a hog. Ohh, and that's a street bike, and it's not nearly as noisy as one of the big boys.
Psychology of economics, common sense, and other people dictating how you should live your life because .. well .. studies have proven they will be happy, even if they protest not.

Honda makes as handsome a cruiser as a Harley, with lower price, a better support system, and a large village of riders. Events where Honda Riders congregate have less of a negative impact on the area and are better perceived by people who see them come to town (as seen by the difference in perception at the annual Honda Hoot in Knoxville, TN versus the recent Harley-Chopper Smokeout in my area. Boy were a lot of the locals unhappy about that ). You would be happier riding a Honda, seeing the resources ($$) that can be saved and the larger, more accepted community you could belong to, but no ... you gotta have a Harley; it's been your dream since you were a kid.

*shrug* The same can be said of the environments people choose as their homes. What you dictate would make better sense, economically and in the impact on society. What people's dreams are don't always make sense and can create a negative impact on the rest of the community. Still, that's how they choose to live because it's what truly makes them happy; it's something for which they had planned.

And, as far as loud Harleys, they aren't made that way anymore. In fact, the manufacturer now campaigns against that nuisance
Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Company Speaks about Loud Exhaust Pipes - News & Updates - Motorcycle Cruiser
However, loud pipes (or at least the "throaty, rumbling" kind) tend to be the mantra of Harley riders so there is no dearth of after market parts.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:29 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,319,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post




You decide.
I have. It reminds me of this



If that's your thing, welcome to it. Personally, I would go postal living in an ant hill society. Some folks are not suited to close quarters. Call them anti-social or hermits, some of them live very productive, social lives in other areas - like work - but then need the down time, totally away from people, afterward.

No, I don't want to

Quote:
..adults can sit around in communal sidewalk cafe type places and actually (gasp!) talk to their neighbors, as opposed to "Barbequing" in the backyard while yelling at the misses and never seeing a neighbor except maybe to yell across the fence.
I want to sit out on my screen porch and read my books - IN PEACE and QUIET. I want to take my Chinsters out back and play fetch IN MY OWN YARD, not some dog park where there are dozens of other yapping pets vying for quartered space. I want to wake up in the morning, go sit on the porch, watch the mist rise from the ground and scowl at the squirrels raiding the garden I put in with no one else around. In those immortal words "I vant to be left alone."

You know, I can picture you at the wheel of a large black van, trundling out to the suburbs, or the more rural areas where some of us have *gasp* dared to set up our own Walden. You and the Village Guards would round us up, dragging us from our own chosen lives, and hustle us back to your Village where, of course, everyone is happy. We'd be shoved into a chair at your sidewalk cafe, have a cup of latte slammed down, and told "now you TALK to the other people, dammit! This is how things are SUPPOSED to be! It's for the betterment of everyone!"

Maybe some would lack the strength to resist your Borg heroes; "Resistance is Futile"; and meekly accept their fate. I know that I'd dip a finger in my latte, nod in satisfaction that it's hot, then fling it in your face. With a howl "viva la resistance!" the rest of my suburb and Walden-style compatriots would grab the chairs (I bet they're wrought iron - very twee) fight our way through, commandeer the van, and escape back to our homes - actual homes, not buildings butted together, sharing common walls.

Last edited by silverwing; 06-27-2008 at 03:36 AM..
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:38 AM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,758,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelmate38 View Post
You're leaving one minor equation out in your THEORY (and that is all it is) American ingenuity. If you think for one second that Americans and all it's mighty corporate appeal are going sit by and do nothing while fuel prices soar to $12-$15 per gallon, you are sadly mistaken. The suburbs are what "feed the beast" and how American's like and want to live. Corporate American and American ingenuity will find alternative methods for this lifestyle to be maintained and preserved in American.

My only suggestion, is that if your European lovin butt, desires to live in a little cardboard box and under a fake socialist umbrella, then immigrate there. We Americans will have none of it.
I see what you did there. See, that person showed you American ingenuity i.e. redesigning urban areas to be more sustainable. Its just that you don't want to hear that, you want to hold on to non sustainable and wasteful past. People like you are going to adapt or many of you will not make it back from this.

I also think the person was being a bit extreme. I am from Brooklyn and have a few family members with Brownstones in Brooklyn. They ALL have backyards by the way. They aren't HUGE but they have a decent sized back yard. In fact when we have family get together, my cousin has it at his house. We BBQ in the back yard, *good times*

I think that there will still be suburbs after all this but those are going to be ghettos I think or for people with less money. The opposite of how many cities have been where the downtown is where the lower class lived for decades now. There will be a reversal of rolls. This isn't going to happen over night though. We are probably talking a decade or so.
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:08 AM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,758,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
In other words, a community PLANNED did not work. Of course. However, this is different. There is no plan, as much as NECESSITY. When gasoline is fifteen dollars a gallon, suddenly, living in the shadow of your job in a cottage near a train stop and a market as opposed to driving an hour to work and ANOTHER HOUR to get a gallon of milk does not sound so bad after all.

What happened to you was people given an option, and not choosing to change their suburbian sprawl ways. Great thing about the end of oil is, now, my fellow Americans ( about 85% of whom, I hate to say, are idiots) HAVE NO CHOICE! They;ll have to live closer to where they work, take mass transit, and maybe (gasp!) actually WALK from here to there every now and again. Obesity will go down, needless to say.

It's depressing that Americans didn't choose to change, instead, they waited until they had change forced onto them.
Well, speaking to the mentality of American's, it is like most other societies. For as much as we American's like to paint ourselves as "free thinking", Freedom loving people we are really people driven by propaganda, be that from corporations or the government.

Suburbia was created/planned by govt, automakers and builders (see: levitt). Now, people want to defend what they have been brainwashed to love. So I agree, people generally do not think very well on their own. Not because they are inherently stupid but because they refuse to do proper research on ANY subject. Most conversations here are centered on a mix of opinions and bad information.

With that said, this society is going to change, they will have absolutly no choice. Our F.I.R.E. economy = toast. Transportation cost are up, which means the end of cheap goods from China. Real Estate is toast and homes are being abandoned in many places. Governments bulldozing in many places. Transportation by big rig is going to be limited (heavy rail is making a come back). Many airplane companies might not make it out of this one and we can see they are preparing maglev trains as we speak, for long distance commuting (there is a map of where the initial trains will be on line some where). Yes, they will have 100 mpg cars sooner or later but honestly, people can barely scratch up the money to pay their rent no less go finance a new car. So that is going to mean, for many people driving may become a luxury. In comes mass transit as a result. People should do bollean google searchs for their city and mass transit. Also do one for their city and the words master plan. You will see that this urban renewl has been in the planning for some time, so ask yourself why? Government isn't as dumb as many tin foil hat wearers make it out to be. Peak oil and all that comes with it has been known for decades.

So people need to stop arguing and face reality, life is going to change drastically for most Americans (over the next decade or so). It is, what it is. It changed drastically when corporations thought it a good idea to push suburbia on the people. So people are not adverse to or unable to change. Same way that transformation took place, urban living will happen too. People should go visit NYC (specifically the outer boroughs), also Boston, Philly, DC, Chicago to see how this is going down. Doesn't mean everyone will no longer have backyards and it doesn't mean you can't live on a quiet street and read a book on your stoop or whatever these homes will have. Heck I have one cousin who lives on a quiet street in Brooklyn. She owns a beautiful brownstone, has a nice backyard, very small front yard and a nice stoop to sit on and read, or watch the day go buy if you like.

On a side note, downtown fort lauderdale has some nice homes in their urban core. They are not the huge mega sprawl but they make more sense in a urban none cheap oil future. Here is one:



You can't really tell from the picture but the homes are a arms length away from each other and the backyard is about as big as some backyards I have seen in Brownstones in Bklyn.
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