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Old 07-01-2008, 01:51 PM
 
55,028 posts, read 43,874,554 times
Reputation: 34430

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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
We don't have a "free" market, we have a "managed" market and companies are using that to create their semi-monopolies. The use the government to create rules and regulations and redirect money so that it kills their competition. Is there really a reason we haven't moved beyond oil since the 1970's?? The greedy companies are anti-free market because the free market brings only one thing for them... competition and they can't get rich if they have to compete. Some regulations "are" necessary but not regulations that kills the competition which happens to be 99% of the regulations out there (okay, slight exaggeration). The companies can set whatever price they want to (look at gasoline prices) and blame scapegoats (speculators)... why don't they raise their prices to absurd levels? Cause then consumption would go down and they lose more money (unless you have a product that is always in high demand). The diamond industry is doing well on an otherwise "worthless" product to consumers. The market does NOTHING to set prices, if you invest every dime you had in Ford, does that mean that Ford cars should be more expensive? No, Ford determines how much the car is worth regardless of what you want. But they can raise prices and blame you for it. The manufacturer is the one that sets prices. So it is FORD'S choice to do that, NOT the market.... Ford could of easily said, we will keep the price which means all you investors and speculators will not profit as much (nor will Ford). What happens? They raise their prices (and make lots of money) and blame speculators... The people WHO SELL the product are the ones who CONTROL the price... If I have corn and I sell it at $10 and there is a huge demand for it and people are giving me money to make more corn to sell... I have the RIGHT to sell corn at whatever price I want to... NOT the investors or speculators... I can blame them for the increase but the price increases rests solely on the manufacturer and NOBODY else...

"regulations to ensure competition"... I don't know if you know this... that is an oxymoron... you want to ensure competition, less regulation ON competition is what is needed.. Too bad Big Business owns the Republican and Democrats, so it ain't going to happen...



Do I want them to go out of business? Yes... I am sure the people who made buggy whips when horse-drawn carriages were trotting about didn't want to go out of business... they are an antiquated model that has pass its prime... I am sure people would rather we used feathers and an ink bottle to write instead of the pens we use now or using sundials instead of a clock.... its the evolution of energy.. if you think the future of energy is rely on some other company in the future... you are ignorant..

What happens when oil companies don't do it? Then someone who wants to make money will do it... which means... just about EVERYBODY..
These are the same companies that lost their shirt in the 1980's and didn't do so hot in the 90's. So basically, oil companies have performed poorly for 20 of the last 22 years or so. How do you reconcile this with your world view?

Seems to me that massive global demand increases and the devaluation of the dollar are the biggest culprit.

I'd be curious to hear an actual financial or economics argument from you instead of these wild claims that don't bear scrutiny.
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Old 07-01-2008, 03:03 PM
 
3,031 posts, read 8,428,659 times
Reputation: 832
It always amazes me that we can put a man on the moon, send a space probe to Mars but we can't figure out an alternative to oil.
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Old 07-01-2008, 03:37 PM
 
893 posts, read 500,857 times
Reputation: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by findingmesomeday View Post
It always amazes me that we can put a man on the moon, send a space probe to Mars but we can't figure out an alternative to oil.
I have posted that several times. I think somebody has the brains and maybe already has developed an alternative but for whatever reason it's not being released.
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Old 07-01-2008, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Obama playing field
716 posts, read 1,928,152 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by findingmesomeday View Post
It always amazes me that we can put a man on the moon, send a space probe to Mars but we can't figure out an alternative to oil.
Powers that be and people in the money will bleed first before they see that happen. We aint hurting enough to do something about it, yet!!
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Old 07-01-2008, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Mid Missouri (Miz-oo-ree)
625 posts, read 1,452,337 times
Reputation: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruikshl View Post
I have posted that several times. I think somebody has the brains and maybe already has developed an alternative but for whatever reason it's not being released.
HHO gas....it's awesome and it works. You have to build the apparatus precisely...but it's worth the trouble. Google " run your car on water" and check it out. It's cheap too.
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Old 07-01-2008, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Southeast
4,296 posts, read 6,393,289 times
Reputation: 1445
I fully support your idea, the only thing I can suggest is that you protect what you are doing. My neighbors got into making their own ethanol, and somebody came over in the middle of the night and stole their entire batch (about 100 gallons). Industrial process or not, perhaps an indoor (shed) version should be conceived...
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Old 07-01-2008, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,615 posts, read 13,142,624 times
Reputation: 2539
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyC64 View Post
HHO gas....it's awesome and it works. You have to build the apparatus precisely...but it's worth the trouble. Google " run your car on water" and check it out. It's cheap too.
I could swear they did it on Mythbusters and the device failed horribly.
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Old 07-01-2008, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,590,168 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
We don't have a "free" market, we have a "managed" market and companies are using that to create their semi-monopolies. The use the government to create rules and regulations and redirect money so that it kills their competition. Is there really a reason we haven't moved beyond oil since the 1970's?? The greedy companies are anti-free market because the free market brings only one thing for them... competition and they can't get rich if they have to compete. Some regulations "are" necessary but not regulations that kills the competition which happens to be 99% of the regulations out there (okay, slight exaggeration). The companies can set whatever price they want to (look at gasoline prices) and blame scapegoats (speculators)... why don't they raise their prices to absurd levels? Cause then consumption would go down and they lose more money (unless you have a product that is always in high demand). The diamond industry is doing well on an otherwise "worthless" product to consumers. The market does NOTHING to set prices, if you invest every dime you had in Ford, does that mean that Ford cars should be more expensive? No, Ford determines how much the car is worth regardless of what you want. But they can raise prices and blame you for it. The manufacturer is the one that sets prices. So it is FORD'S choice to do that, NOT the market.... Ford could of easily said, we will keep the price which means all you investors and speculators will not profit as much (nor will Ford). What happens? They raise their prices (and make lots of money) and blame speculators... The people WHO SELL the product are the ones who CONTROL the price... If I have corn and I sell it at $10 and there is a huge demand for it and people are giving me money to make more corn to sell... I have the RIGHT to sell corn at whatever price I want to... NOT the investors or speculators... I can blame them for the increase but the price increases rests solely on the manufacturer and NOBODY else...
Your argument is not very coherent. First you start off state that companies can set prices however they want (in your first post). Then you say that they can set prices and because of regulations blame it on someone else. Then you say they can't set prices however they want because demand would go down. Then you say Ford can price cars however they want. (This is true if you ignore the fact that actually have to SELL cars at the price they set.) So I'm not sure which argument to respond to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
"regulations to ensure competition"... I don't know if you know this... that is an oxymoron... you want to ensure competition, less regulation ON competition is what is needed.. Too bad Big Business owns the Republican and Democrats, so it ain't going to happen...
I'll accept your term "managed" market. But we don't want an entirely free market. We need some protection from monopolies and pollution. We do have regulatory bodies that are supposed to ensure competition in the marketplace. That's why there is a review before two large companies are allowed to merge. Sometimes they have to sell off part of company before the merge.

What I am saying is that we know that corporations are "greedy." There is nothing wrong with that. We need to recognize that they exist to make profits and in so doing create jobs, goods, services, and tax revenue. Rather than bashing them we should channel their "greed" through minimal regulations that ensure competition. Overregulation is a bad thing too. Believe me, as a business owner in California I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
Do I want them to go out of business? Yes... I am sure the people who made buggy whips when horse-drawn carriages were trotting about didn't want to go out of business... they are an antiquated model that has pass its prime... I am sure people would rather we used feathers and an ink bottle to write instead of the pens we use now or using sundials instead of a clock.... its the evolution of energy.. if you think the future of energy is rely on some other company in the future... you are ignorant..

What happens when oil companies don't do it? Then someone who wants to make money will do it... which means... just about EVERYBODY..
Eventually Big Oil of the present may be as relevant as Big Railroad of the 19th century is today. But we are no where near the time when oil is irrelevant in society. It just gets old seeing people take cheap shots at oil companies while failing to recognize that modern society has been built on cheap oil and the investment of companies to get it and develop it. Now we are at a stage where the higher prices are spurring the accelerated development of alternatives. But the market is doing it - through the innovation and risk-taking of individuals and businesses- not government.
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:18 PM
 
48,509 posts, read 86,101,401 times
Reputation: 18105
Also watch that the law doesn't come after you for storing too much hazardous materials.Methnol burns very easily and your insurance may not payoff and you will be in court if your area only allows storage of so much without specific containment.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 24,255,603 times
Reputation: 4927
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyC64 View Post
HHO gas....it's awesome and it works. You have to build the apparatus precisely...but it's worth the trouble. Google " run your car on water" and check it out. It's cheap too.
You still need petroleum or another energy source to produce the hydrogen and oxygen to mix with the air intake.
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