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Old 07-02-2008, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,591,642 times
Reputation: 909

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Regardless, I have a custom windows box with pretty exotic hardware and I can't even remember the last time it crashed.

This is pretty easy to benchmark and its not true. Multi-tasking comes down to thread/process management and the algorithms used in the Mach Kernel (which Mac uses) aren't any better than in Windows. If you noticed a difference it was most likely due to a difference in hardware. Now, back when Windows was built on top of DOS multi-tasking sucked in windows. Its funny that something that hasn't been true for over 10 years is still mentioned.
Just a couple of excerpts from your post to point out that you are a computer geek (and I don't say that perjoratively). I point that out because it has been my experience that geeks like PCs because they can do more with them. I can understand that. But for the average person who is not into computers but is just surfing the web, sending email, and writing documents Macs are just easier to use, period. I don't usually state my opinions as facts so definitively but I have just spent way too many hours walking computer illiterate relatives through tasks that would have been pretty simple on a Mac but were a pain on Windows. Want to talk about anti-virus software?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
The real threat to Apple is Jobs retirement.
Very well stated.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,555,673 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
People like Humanoid and newbie have been telling me how lousy macs are for about 20 years now.
Except I never said that macs were lousy, only that they are overpriced. Mac is now using PC hardware so saying one is better than the other makes little sense as far as hardware goes, the only thing left is the OS. I don't think OS X is any better or worse than windows. In fact, I would think about using it if I didn't have to pay double for it.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:20 PM
 
19,091 posts, read 20,659,578 times
Reputation: 8360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
But for the average person who is not into computers but is just surfing the web, sending email, and writing documents Macs are just easier to use, period. I don't usually state my opinions as facts so definitively but I have just spent way too many hours walking computer illiterate relatives through tasks that would have been pretty simple on a Mac but were a pain on Windows. Want to talk about anti-virus software?
How is surfing the internet any different on a PC? You click on the web browser and surf...?? How is that harder...Is emailing different? Is writing a document different? As far as I know, you all click on the icon to do it in Mac or Windows... so where is the "difficulty" between a Mac and PC?? Are you claiming there are no Mac viruses?? That would be something I haven't heard of before...
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,591,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
How is surfing the internet any different on a PC? You click on the web browser and surf...?? How is that harder...Is emailing different? Is writing a document different? As far as I know, you all click on the icon to do it in Mac or Windows... so where is the "difficulty" between a Mac and PC?? Are you claiming there are no Mac viruses?? That would be something I haven't heard of before...
If you've never worked on a Mac then you are not likely to appreciate what I am about to say. I have worked extensively on both and I think I have a good idea why Macs seem easier to use.

1) Most of the programs work the same on a Mac. If you know how to use one program it is easier to learn other one. On Windows programs don't have as consistent a set-up. The big advantage with Windows is the vastly larger amount of software available.

2) The keyboard shortcuts on a Mac make it much faster to move around on. When I watch my employees use Macs that are use to Windows they treat it like Windows. When they watch me they are constantly asking how it am doing things without using the mouse as much. Apple pioneered the mouse but perfected the keyboard shortcut.

3) Surfing the web on a PC - you are much less likely to find sites that are incompatible with your browser. It used to happen all the time on Macs but the newer browsers are pretty good. But every window opens like its own program. So if you are on Firefox and download something then click the X to close Firefox you have to go to the download window and then close that one too. With a Mac it is Apple-Q and done.

4) The programs on a Mac are much more self-contained. (Humanoid will properly scold me here for not using the correct description but I am not a computer guy, really.) How many times have you had a Windows program become unusable because some .dll file is missing. The only thing even close to that I have experienced on a Mac has been with Microsoft products.

5) Anti-virus programs - Sadly the time is coming when Mac users will have to pay attention for viruses. But there really are very few of them at present. (By the way, virus software is extremely user non-friendly. I could not even begin to tell you have Norton and McAfee could be more confusing to purchase and set-up).

6) The way the windows are set-up on a PC is different. The program you are using takes up the entire screen. You can reduce it but then you can't see nearly as much of the program. On a Mac the programs overlap and take up less desktop space while still displaying much more than a comparable Windows window. (If you haven't used a Mac you won't understand this one.)

7) Searching for a particular email or document is much easier on a Mac. With Spotlight it is easy. On a PC you can do a find but it is much slower and it doesn't index the entire computer.

EVERY person I know who has used Mac for a period of time (mostly at work) as a Windows user has converted to a Mac. These are not computer geeks looking to pimp out their system. Nor are they gamers. They are just simple users like I described before.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,555,673 times
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Quote:
How many times have you had a Windows program become unusable because some .dll file is missing.
Hmm.....not once with Windows XP. And again my computer is custom with a lot of non-standard drivers.

Quote:
EVERY person I know who has used Mac for a period of time (mostly at work) as a Windows user has converted to a Mac.
And how much of this is social? Of course you don't know...which is why its not particularly interesting.

Anyhow, the average computer person is going to read your "why macs are better" and shrug their shoulders. You keep talking about the average computer user, yet seem not to note they really don't care about this. They are interested in getting a computer for a few hundred bucks that they can go online with among other things. Macs aren't for the "average user" and this really isn't Apple's target market. Macs are a niche product and they are marketed as such. When you buy a mac you are paying for a brand in addition to a computer. Its pretty funny actually, now that Macs run on PC hardware they had to do little stupid things to their OS not to work on any old PC. Of course it doesn't stop the geeks from installing OS X on their old computers but it does stop the general public.

Anyhow, MAC vs PC doesn't even exist anymore. MACs are PCs running OS X now.

Quote:
On a PC you can do a find but it is much slower and it doesn't index the entire computer.
If you want this you can install:

Google Desktop Download

But personally, like most people I rarely search for documents.

Last edited by Humanoid; 07-03-2008 at 12:56 AM..
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,591,642 times
Reputation: 909
As I stated before my long post (don't you hate posts that long?)... If you are not a Mac user you are not going understand what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Anyhow, MAC vs PC doesn't even exist anymore. MACs are PCs running OS X now.
I can't agree with this. It's like saying there is not difference between a Chevy Suburban and Silverado because they are built on the same frame.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:54 AM
 
19,091 posts, read 20,659,578 times
Reputation: 8360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
If you've never worked on a Mac then you are not likely to appreciate what I am about to say. I have worked extensively on both and I think I have a good idea why Macs seem easier to use.

1) Most of the programs work the same on a Mac. If you know how to use one program it is easier to learn other one. On Windows programs don't have as consistent a set-up. The big advantage with Windows is the vastly larger amount of software available.
If you want "consistency" than buy software from the same company. You are blaming the versatility and broad selection as a "negative"? That is weird. I like to choose a program that fits me and sometimes that means buying some other company's software. If I wanted something to fit me for a Mac, I am out of luck because its better to have consistency instead of selection choice? When did limited products become a good thing?

Quote:
2) The keyboard shortcuts on a Mac make it much faster to move around on. When I watch my employees use Macs that are use to Windows they treat it like Windows. When they watch me they are constantly asking how it am doing things without using the mouse as much. Apple pioneered the mouse but perfected the keyboard shortcut.
Windows do have programmable keyboards but you were talking about "most" people's experiences... most of them don't use programmable keyboards or shortcuts for that matter. There isn't an advantage when windows does the exact same thing.

Quote:
3) Surfing the web on a PC - you are much less likely to find sites that are incompatible with your browser. It used to happen all the time on Macs but the newer browsers are pretty good. But every window opens like its own program. So if you are on Firefox and download something then click the X to close Firefox you have to go to the download window and then close that one too. With a Mac it is Apple-Q and done.
I use Firefox all the time (its my default browser). My wife who is computer illiterate and doesn't know a RAM from a ROM uses it as well without any problems... she uses both IE and firefox and hasn't had any problems with incompatibility or whatnot... she does quite a bit of media playing on the computer whereas I download a lot, I used to do it with Macs and didn't notice the difference between the two...

Quote:
4) The programs on a Mac are much more self-contained. (Humanoid will properly scold me here for not using the correct description but I am not a computer guy, really.) How many times have you had a Windows program become unusable because some .dll file is missing. The only thing even close to that I have experienced on a Mac has been with Microsoft products.
When I did have a missing .dll file it was because the program that I installed did a poor job of being complete, not Windows fault. Finding a missing .dll file is as easy as searching the web. Besides that, I haven't had a missing .dll file for over 6 years now, probably because companies are being much more complete in their installation of their programs. The missing files are moot points that was fixed years ago... I remember when Macs had the same problem and calling it "corrupted" files but that problem has since been solved a long time ago...

Quote:
5) Anti-virus programs - Sadly the time is coming when Mac users will have to pay attention for viruses. But there really are very few of them at present. (By the way, virus software is extremely user non-friendly. I could not even begin to tell you have Norton and McAfee could be more confusing to purchase and set-up).
There are viruses for windows because most people use windows instead of Macs. I rather have a product that has been tested with more advanced viral programming and more available protection than a Mac who has albeit less viruses but soon will be targeted like the rest of them with advanced viral programs and be completely at their mercy. Its like asking for a Fort versus a Home against an invasion... A Fort (PC) is already ready for the invasion while the Home (Mac) is going to get sacked by the oncoming invasion... and they know its coming... you think antivirus will be more user-friendly on a Mac? You are bringing in a moot point.. at least PC users are use to installing antiviruses and are use to them, Mac users will be like "WTH is that?" and calling tech support and asking "What's an anti-virus?"....

Quote:
[6) The way the windows are set-up on a PC is different. The program you are using takes up the entire screen. You can reduce it but then you can't see nearly as much of the program. On a Mac the programs overlap and take up less desktop space while still displaying much more than a comparable Windows window. (If you haven't used a Mac you won't understand this one.)
I used a Mac and I know what you are talking about with transparency and honestly it is more "distracting" than helpful. Vista has it and most people I know hate it, so do I... I wouldn't say it was a beneficial to be constantly squinting my eyes to make out the details...

Quote:
7) Searching for a particular email or document is much easier on a Mac. With Spotlight it is easy. On a PC you can do a find but it is much slower and it doesn't index the entire computer.
I never ever searched for a file, I even turned off the indexing feature completely. I hate it. It consumes too much space and isn't necessary for 99.9% of the people out there. On the 20+ years I have had a PC, I never once used any indexing program or anyone that I know... a totally useless feature for myself and others... it may be good for "business" computers but if you are using Macs for business, you have a lot of money to burn...

Quote:
EVERY person I know who has used Mac for a period of time (mostly at work) as a Windows user has converted to a Mac. These are not computer geeks looking to pimp out their system. Nor are they gamers. They are just simple users like I described before.
Everyone I know who uses a Mac likes it to... its a fad, they also like jeans with holes in it... they like Mac for the brand name and "bragging" about what they have... I feel content with spending less money on my computer than their Mac and outperform them on everything... I spent the extra money I saved on a really nice vacation...
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:08 AM
 
3,031 posts, read 8,431,688 times
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I think this is the age old "Hatfield vs McCoys" brought into the computer era!

To answer the OP, no I don't think Apple is a fad and I base that on how they've reinvented themselves 2-3 times already to recapture the market. The Ipod was the biggie and I have no doubt that one day they will successfully achieve their goal of their consumers having one device that does just about everything.

The marketing is brilliant. Extensions and add-ons for everything. Going into an Apple Retail Store is an experience, whether or not you are a Mac or PC afficiando!
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:09 AM
 
3,460 posts, read 5,070,768 times
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Don't bother fighting them Niner.....they're always right, and macs have been a fad that's going to disappear since the 80's.

I've done pretty well on the stock I picked up for $14 ($7 when adjusted for the split)
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 74,739,217 times
Reputation: 27602
I went Mac and I'm never going back

I prefer unix type systems and Mac os has a much better user interface/desktop than Linux.

I only miss one program which is Microsoft Money but a copy of Parallels fixed that.
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