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Old 07-03-2008, 01:56 PM
 
19,083 posts, read 20,652,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
The same arguments apply to BMW.....a car is a car and the Kia has a better warranty

You are correct but you mixed them up... The Mac is like the Kia but at the price of a BMW... still think that's a great deal?
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:42 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,760,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
The same arguments apply to BMW.....a car is a car and the Kia has a better warranty
I work as a network admin. I am here to tell you. If i could, I would roll out apples to my entire user base. Just a better machine, period.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:03 PM
 
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I wonder whether Microsoft will hang on for another 20 years. They're about as good at giving the public what we want as Ford/Chrysler/GM.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,554,540 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
If you are not a Mac user you are not going understand what I said.
Yeah, that is pretty lame. Needless to say I have worked with macs many times. I would even bet I was using it before...all of you. Anyhow, your reasons why it are better are weak and the "average user" isn't going to care. Its about flashy graphics.

Quote:
I prefer unix type systems and Mac os has a much better user interface/desktop than Linux.
Gnome's desktop is way better than Mac, you get multiple desktops and can switch between them. So you can be working on one project and then switch to another without moving around a bunch windows. Or better yet....when working you can have your e-mail and other fun stuff open in a desktop and can in one keystroke hide it and bring up your work. The general interface in Mac is better than any desktop available Linux (remember there are many of them).

Quote:
and macs have been a fad that's going to disappear since the 80's.
Macs almost did disappear. It was their marketing that brought them back to life. Apple is an excellent example of the power of marketing. Look, they have you guys defending Macs on a forum! Windows user don't really care. They created a cult around their products...its brilliant. I'm just not willing to spend more for it.

Quote:
Just a better machine, period.
The "machines" are the same.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,554,540 times
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Quote:
windows gui elements taken from macs
Windows and Apple got their GUIs from research products at Xerox. In fact Xerox had a surprising number of research products that later become very successful...they just weren't involved! They they the engineering talent but not the business talent to turn it into viable products.

But that is the funny thing about Mac funboys they are filled with so many myths its crazy (Very good marketing!!!). Better multi-tasking, mac create the gui, mac create the mouse. None of it is true (btw, Xerox created the mouse with the GUI, apple took the ideas from them).
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:26 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,760,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Windows and Apple got their GUIs from research products at Xerox. In fact Xerox had a surprising number of research products that later become very successful...they just weren't involved! They they the engineering talent but not the business talent to turn it into viable products.

But that is the funny thing about Mac funboys they are filled with so many myths its crazy (Very good marketing!!!). Better multi-tasking, mac create the gui, mac create the mouse. None of it is true (btw, Xerox created the mouse with the GUI, apple took the ideas from them).
actually, present day mac and windows GUI get a lot of their "innovations" from Linux. As for your MAC and other Intel based machines being the same, that is not entirely true. Mac is a closed HW environment, IF You know what that means.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,554,540 times
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Quote:
As for your MAC and other Intel based machines being the same, that is not entirely true.
Apple now buys the same hardware that PC makers buy. The fact that they screw with the hardware a bit doesn't mean anything (Or force OS X users to use only their selected hardware).
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:32 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,760,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Apple now buys the same hardware that PC makers buy. The fact that they screw with the hardware a bit doesn't mean anything (Or force OS X users to use only their selected hardware).
ah, so you dont know what closed environment means
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:13 PM
 
812 posts, read 3,629,712 times
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I'm a mild geek and have my opinions, but seeing as that's best kept to another forum, I really only care to look at this from the pragmatic business perspective. If the common perception is that Apple products are easier to use, it doesn't really matter weather it's true or not in the short run, because solid facts aren't the only force in the market... ever. People ALWAYS look for some fulfillment of a hedonic need in product decision. If people begin to change their perception, that's a whole new animal, but currently, if the perception is that Apple is more user-friendly (a perception since the 1980's), that's what will be shown in the market regardless of weather it is true or not. It's all about the USP (unique selling proposition), and Apple's is clearly in aesthetics, vertical integration (from a product perspective), and user appeal. It may eventually have to change if popular sentiment changes, but it doesn't mean that the entire corporation is written off as a fad just because the USP may need to change eventually if customer sentiment does. No one writes off BMW, even though Chris Bangle's controversial styling is very pop/fad based. Most have the faith in its ability to innovate and deliver when sentiment changes. There are very few companies that have been around for a long time without needing to "reinvent" at some point.

Apple has a mix of aesthetics and marketing that is outstanding... regardless of what you think of the products... and the numbers on what system is better don't entirely matter. Everyone can argue over what a possibly better system Betamax was, but in the end it didn't matter. Sure, I think Apple fad-bases it's product lines, but it doesn't mean the company itself is a fad... it's simply a marketing tool... with the right innovation and marketing, they can roll out new ideas in the future. If they die, it's simply their own failure to give the market what it wants.

Therefore, the argument should be about weather Apple can innovate properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
any overpriced merchandise will meet its timely end when faced with a competitive product that is cheaper
Generally true, but I have a feeling that this statement is made with the term "competitive" simply referring to the specs of the computer. There will, however, always be a segment of the market that is willing to pay higher prices to receive some sort of luxury, especially in aesthetics. Why do some people refuse to shop at Wal-Mart? They don't want to have such a downscale experience. Some may look at a cheaper, faster tower PC and an iMac and still not deem them "competitive" because the iMac arguably looks nicer on a desk. Is that person making a bad decision? You may say yes, and so be it, but that's the environment in which business operates - with people and their biases - like it or not. Aesthetics are worth something, or else we'd all be living in completely undecorated square homes with white walls and mismatched furniture.

Last edited by tande1n5; 07-03-2008 at 09:28 PM..
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:09 PM
 
213 posts, read 472,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tande1n5 View Post
I I really only care to look at this from the pragmatic business perspective. If the common perception is that Apple products are easier to use, it doesn't really matter weather it's true or not in the short run, because solid facts aren't the only force in the market... ever. People ALWAYS look for some fulfillment of a hedonic need in product decision. If people begin to change their perception, that's a whole new animal, but currently, if the perception is that Apple is more user-friendly (a perception since the 1980's), that's what will be shown in the market regardless of weather it is true or not.
.....

Apple has a mix of aesthetics and marketing that is outstanding... regardless of what you think of the products... and the numbers on what system is better don't entirely matter. Everyone can argue over what a possibly better system Betamax was, but in the end it didn't matter. Sure, I think Apple fad-bases it's product lines, but it doesn't mean the company itself is a fad... it's simply a marketing tool... with the right innovation and marketing, they can roll out new ideas in the future. If they die, it's simply their own failure to give the market what it wants.

....that's the environment in which business operates - with people and their biases - like it or not. Aesthetics are worth something, or else we'd all be living in completely undecorated square homes with white walls and mismatched furniture.
Excellent post.
Use PC's at work. Always had a Mac at home. I'm a simple, boring non-geeky user. I liked the look, liked the plug and play, like that the basic functions and programs - iTunes, iPhoto, Safari, are right there front and center. I like the little things - like not having to load a browser when I plug in my camera, the machine just knows which model I have and starts downloading, walking me through the entire process. It's nice.

Am I faddy? A fashion victim? Maybe, though I don't drink Starbucks or wear Manolo Blahniks. I've never regretted my purchases though, even for a moment, and each computer has lasted for many productive years.

So why the derision?
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