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Old 07-06-2008, 03:18 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,557,114 times
Reputation: 592

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Quote:
You still don't have the credibility with me to criticize Mac OS because I don't believe are familiar enough with the OS to make a judgement.
I don't think you get it. I'm not out to criticize OS X, I don't think at least from the user's point of view its a bad OS. In fact in some ways I prefer OS X because it has a shell. But I can dual boot Windows and Linux. And you can say I'm not familiar with mac all you want, but the fact is I'm rather familiar with OS X both from the user's point of view and the programmer's point of view.

Face it, someone that is familiar with OS X doesn't think its superior to Windows.

Anyhow, if you prefer macs thats fine just don't site myths to justify your aesthetic preference. I personally, don't find the extra money worth it.
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Old 07-06-2008, 08:06 PM
 
440 posts, read 1,699,196 times
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Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
Back in 99, I bought an 400MHz imac. It still works great, and I never had to do a thing to it. No virus software, no hard drive maintenance, nothing. It starts up on OSX and can check email in less than two minutes. OS9 is even faster.

My four year old POS Dell thats supposed to be three times as fast as the mac literally takes ten minutes to start up and check email because of the way windows manages to clutter itself up with garbage over time.

New imac takes 45 seconds or less to boot and get mail.

The extra time waiting on windows would cost me a week's production over the life of the computer. At the rate I bill, that's thousands of dollars in lost time just waiting for the ****** machine to boot.
My Gateway takes atleast 10 minutes to fully load! And sometimes it takes even longer to shut it down. It's about 6 years old, so I guess it comes with the age.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,208 posts, read 22,808,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
When you buy a mac you are paying for a brand in addition to a computer.
Apple is a software company first and foremost and since, what, 1992 they pulled all third party licensing which mandated that if you wanted to run the Apple OS, or use programs that are designed for the Apple computer, then you unfortunately have to also buy their computer. That is either marketing genius, or suicide; but seeing as how Apple has moved from having one foot in the grave to being fairly competitive with other PC manufacturers shows the former.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Its pretty funny actually, now that Macs run on PC hardware they had to do little stupid things to their OS not to work on any old PC. Of course it doesn't stop the geeks from installing OS X on their old computers but it does stop the general public.
What they did was install a chip on the logic board that OS X pings upon start-up. If it doesn't ping, it won't boot. Yes, hackintosh's exists and the OSx86 project is alive and well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Anyhow, MAC vs PC doesn't even exist anymore. MACs are PCs running OS X now.
Steve Jobs practically invented the PC and the Apple ][ is pretty much the first mass-marketed PC. It wasn't until the early to mid 90's when Apple officially dropped the PC from it's lexicon and established itself fully as a Mac.
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,208 posts, read 22,808,354 times
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Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
I'm an avid PC user, and I personally don't think Macs are that easy to use and that their products are too expensive for what they do.
So, you don't think that the Final Cut Pro Studio is worth the price? There are programs for the PC are 5x's the price. Anyways, programs that are built for both platforms are generally around the same price. The only difference is that there are tons of 'little' programs available for free or cheap that are not available for Macs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
Despite that, I tend to agree that Apple is not a fad.
Apple has become a total fad since about 2005. Prior to that and throughout the 90's the only people who used Macs were hardcore fanatics and people who needed a powerful workstation. I know that someone will disagree with this, but the only people who had beefed up PC's were (are) the hard-core gamers and some graphic designers. In fact, the vast majority of CAD programs, and all of the really good one's at that are only available for the PC market. I had a former GF who went to school for graphic design, all of the computers that they worked with were Macs. In fact all of the computers at her school where Macs and this was back in 1997. When I began film school in 1998, all of the computers in the film/video/screenwriting computer labs (and classrooms) were all Macs. MCAD (Minneapolis College of Art and Design) has been using Macs since the early 90's and to this day every single computer on campus (aside from the one's that students provide) are Macs. When Apple introduced the Mac Mini and the iMac, they went form being a work horse computer to something that will appeal to those who do not need to render large amounts of files.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
They have proven themselves time and again that they can deliver innovative products that "others" want to replicate (i.e., windows gui elements taken from macs, the wheel interface on the ipods and the zune interface, the ipod color and internal hard drive, the iPhone (samsung touch screen?) and the super thin notebook).
Steve Jobs does things his own way, which rarely seems to make much business sense. The Mac Mini, iMac, 30 inch cinema display, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV, the ADC connection, going exclusively to USB and firewire before everyone else, the mouse, the one-button mouse (although it still can function as a two-button), getting rid of floppy drives years before everyone else, including the drivers for virtually every type of peripheral into the OS so you can just plug and play. ETC.
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,208 posts, read 22,808,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
If I wanted something to fit me for a Mac, I am out of luck because its better to have consistency instead of selection choice? When did limited products become a good thing?
This is only partially Apple's fault. It is totally up to the software companies to write products that are compatible with the Mac, and, if Apple did not upgrade it's OS every year and a half then more software companies would develop software for Macs. This doesn't matter so much now anyways as Macs can now run Windows and Windows based software.
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Old 07-06-2008, 11:25 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,563,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
If you've never worked on a Mac then you are not likely to appreciate what I am about to say. I have worked extensively on both and I think I have a good idea why Macs seem easier to use.

1) Most of the programs work the same on a Mac. If you know how to use one program it is easier to learn other one. On Windows programs don't have as consistent a set-up. The big advantage with Windows is the vastly larger amount of software available.

2) The keyboard shortcuts on a Mac make it much faster to move around on. When I watch my employees use Macs that are use to Windows they treat it like Windows. When they watch me they are constantly asking how it am doing things without using the mouse as much. Apple pioneered the mouse but perfected the keyboard shortcut.

3) Surfing the web on a PC - you are much less likely to find sites that are incompatible with your browser. It used to happen all the time on Macs but the newer browsers are pretty good. But every window opens like its own program. So if you are on Firefox and download something then click the X to close Firefox you have to go to the download window and then close that one too. With a Mac it is Apple-Q and done.

4) The programs on a Mac are much more self-contained. (Humanoid will properly scold me here for not using the correct description but I am not a computer guy, really.) How many times have you had a Windows program become unusable because some .dll file is missing. The only thing even close to that I have experienced on a Mac has been with Microsoft products.

5) Anti-virus programs - Sadly the time is coming when Mac users will have to pay attention for viruses. But there really are very few of them at present. (By the way, virus software is extremely user non-friendly. I could not even begin to tell you have Norton and McAfee could be more confusing to purchase and set-up).

6) The way the windows are set-up on a PC is different. The program you are using takes up the entire screen. You can reduce it but then you can't see nearly as much of the program. On a Mac the programs overlap and take up less desktop space while still displaying much more than a comparable Windows window. (If you haven't used a Mac you won't understand this one.)

7) Searching for a particular email or document is much easier on a Mac. With Spotlight it is easy. On a PC you can do a find but it is much slower and it doesn't index the entire computer.

EVERY person I know who has used Mac for a period of time (mostly at work) as a Windows user has converted to a Mac. These are not computer geeks looking to pimp out their system. Nor are they gamers. They are just simple users like I described before.
Yes, here I am, average computer user. Everything he says is true. I've tried both and the Mac is just easier all around. It just is.
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago
526 posts, read 952,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
Maybe. But Apple is about quality and ease of use too, even though the iPod has some serious ease of use issues.

Apple is innovative enough that I don't expect to see it fall. In fact, I think the percentages of Macs will only increase. Most of my office is Mac and with one exception every employee who has bought a computer since coming to work for us has bought a Mac. (The exception later regretted it.) The OS is just so much faster, more stable, and more intuitive than Windows.

So to answer your question - yes, I expect some serious competition to the iPhone and iPod (and iTunes too) but I don't expect that we will be calling Apple the company a fad in a decade. They will be the leader in something else by then.
that is because apple makes you purchase their hardware there is not worst case scenerio since its tested on their hardware and thats whats in the computer
on the other hand microsoft/linux are what make it a true PC you can pretty much go out and by any ram, any video card and stick it in your computer with apple once you do that, your warrenty is void.
people do not take into considerationi that microsoft cannot test every single hardware config in the world otherwise we wouldnt be gettin an OS for at lest a decade at a time by that time it would already be obsolete and then more complaining would be sent out as usual
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:24 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,766,746 times
Reputation: 2073
Quote:
Originally Posted by justalicious6989 View Post
that is because apple makes you purchase their hardware there is not worst case scenerio since its tested on their hardware and thats whats in the computer
on the other hand microsoft/linux are what make it a true PC you can pretty much go out and by any ram, any video card and stick it in your computer with apple once you do that, your warrenty is void.
people do not take into considerationi that microsoft cannot test every single hardware config in the world otherwise we wouldnt be gettin an OS for at lest a decade at a time by that time it would already be obsolete and then more complaining would be sent out as usual
you have laid out pretty much why a closed environment is better than the open environment model. Microsoft can not plan for every hardware setup. I have about half a dozen apples on my network and they run very well. Some have been around for 5 plus years and run flawlessly. My Windows based machines? Not so much.

Apple is gaining tons of ground. I know a lot of network admins who have replaced many of their windows based computers and have also turned to apple servers as well. Apple, is definitely making a great piece of kit when it comes to their computers.
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Chicago
526 posts, read 952,279 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Style View Post
you have laid out pretty much why a closed environment is better than the open environment model. Microsoft can not plan for every hardware setup. I have about half a dozen apples on my network and they run very well. Some have been around for 5 plus years and run flawlessly. My Windows based machines? Not so much.

Apple is gaining tons of ground. I know a lot of network admins who have replaced many of their windows based computers and have also turned to apple servers as well. Apple, is definitely making a great piece of kit when it comes to their computers.
i think microsoft should have a closed enviroment for businesses wanting to use this option
lets say you make 4-6 different models for the office
one for less demanding hardware, and then the highest model available to run multiple programs
that would probly solve the hardware issue on the business side
and for home users it should be open enviroment
but you cant make everyone happy
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:46 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 47,963,883 times
Reputation: 46172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Windows and Apple got their GUIs from research products at Xerox. In fact Xerox had a surprising number of research products that later become very successful...they just weren't involved! They they the engineering talent but not the business talent to turn it into viable products.

But that is the funny thing about Mac funboys they are filled with so many myths its crazy (Very good marketing!!!). Better multi-tasking, mac create the gui, mac create the mouse. None of it is true (btw, Xerox created the mouse with the GUI, apple took the ideas from them).
Actually, for five years I did a TON of Beta test site work for Xerox and their XPS systems, from XICS programming to interface with the 4050 high-speed laser printer, all the way up to their really execrable Ventura desktop publishing system. I was always on the phone to El Segundo to deal with their latest debugging.

Xerox was great at generating the basic idea, but could never really get it past the initial stages. So, yeah, they had the mouse before anybody else, but their WYSIWIG wasn't true WYSIWIG. Even in 1989, I was still having to hard-code all kinds of basic designs in XICS, even while Quark was eating everybody's lunch in the desktop design category. Heck, you couldn't even print a font larger than 24 points. That's how primitive their capabilities were.

To me, the absolute epitome of Xerox thinking was when David Kearns, the CEO of Xerox at the time came to our office to learn about what we were doing with their product. He asked me what I thought, and I started rattling off how their product really needed to be compatible with publishing standards for things such as line screens, font sizes, et al. Some programming nerd from Palo Alto snorted from the back, and said, "Well that's wishful thinking." To which I replied, "No, if you're selling a publishing system, then it needs to meet publishing standards. And off-the-shelf publishing systems will start eating your lunch any day now."

We were thanked politely and even won a consulting contract with Xerox. But they never were able to take their cool ideas and put them in any practical form--Something that Apple was able to do in pretty spectacular fashion.
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