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Old 09-22-2008, 02:55 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,766,746 times
Reputation: 2073

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Quote:
Originally Posted by justalicious6989 View Post
i think microsoft should have a closed enviroment for businesses wanting to use this option
lets say you make 4-6 different models for the office
one for less demanding hardware, and then the highest model available to run multiple programs
that would probly solve the hardware issue on the business side
and for home users it should be open enviroment
but you cant make everyone happy
this is impossible. As a network admin and with MANY friends who are also network admins I assure you every shop is different. You would have to round up EVERY Network Admin, CIO or whoever makes the purchasing decisions for every company in America. Then get them to all agree to order a set configuration for their shop. That would also mean getting vendors to also agree to this. They would all have to buy their hardware components from the same supplier and so forth and so on. Or atleast get those venders to agree on certain HW standards. But then how would you get them to go along with that without deviating? Apple is one company and they make all the decisions as far as what they offer. YOu don't have 5 or 10 different companies making apples. It is easier for them to set the standard for their HW and SW, less hands in the pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Seriously, this is just funny. You're a damn network admin that makes you an expert in hardware because?! Oh but you program too! Wow! Do you write some Perl scripts? Anyhow, you have no authority in this matter so please stick to actual arguments. I'm surprised you didn't mention your degrees again.
you are one of these uneducated types so let me take this time out to once again educate you. Being a network admin means I work with hardware all day, every day. I have done so for the last 10 yrs. Me having a degree (one of three) in Computer Info Systems means I have studied hardware, software, programing logic and many other things related to computers. This is unlike yourself who may play space invaders on your Windows XP machine. So, yeah my credentials does establish that I have a educated basis from which to speak. As for my programming knowledge, Java, C++, SQL, VB Script, PHP among others. But we are getting off topic. The topic is Apple and is it a fad. From someone who works in the field, I can safely say they have made great ground recently. I have over a dozen friends who are also network admins in NYC all the way to Miami. Many have started deploying Apples in their shops because end users are requesting them. Also because the darn things create less headaches, they just work well. Microsoft has done some impressive things with Vista though. They are borrowing many things from Apple which in turn takes much from the Linux/Unix world. I like how they have set up a similiar SA scheme with their administrator account. More secure thats for sure. Eitherway, if I had a choice I would darn sure roll out Apples en masse in my shop. In fact we are planning to start adopting more Apples here over this next fiscal year and increasing than number of the following fiscal year. If I had my choice I would even roll out a Apple server or two.

Last edited by Wild Style; 09-22-2008 at 03:07 PM..
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:11 PM
 
1,956 posts, read 4,863,817 times
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A fad, I don't know. Aside from the school computers back in the 1990s, I really only worked on Mac at a job I took in 2004. I bought my first Mac last summer, a MacBook. Several months ago I bought an iMac desktop. My AT&T contract will allow me to get a discounted iPhone in about a month, which I'll probably do, as the battery in my current phone is getting weak and I need the extra communicability -- I've tried the Blackberrys, and I don't like them. My wife's PC will probably give out in the next six months or so, and we plan to replace it with a Macbook.

If we're at all typical consumers, then I would say Apple is not a fad (wife doesn't want an iPhone, though!!).
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,557,114 times
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Quote:
Being a network admin means I work with hardware all day, every day. I have done so for the last 10 yrs. Me having a degree (one of three) in Computer Info Systems means I have studied hardware
Being a network admin does not make you an expert on hardware, not even close. Computer info systems? Dude.....why even mention it? That isn't going to impress anybody that is familiar with computing. Establish your point without mentioning your lowbrow degrees.

Regardless, in the windows/linux world is its the hardware companies that establish that their hardware configuration is stable.
There are a number of companies that make very good windows machines that are thoroughly tested. Of course there are other companies that put out junk. But you get what you pay for.

By the way, anybody look at Apples stock lately? When you remove the easy money people have to actually think about their purchases, all those college kids are going to have to go back to lowly PCs! Any high cost hyped product is going to do poorly during the recession....
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:42 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,766,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Being a network admin does not make you an expert on hardware, not even close. Computer info systems? Dude.....why even mention it? That isn't going to impress anybody that is familiar with computing. Establish your point without mentioning your lowbrow degrees. *chuckle* uhunh* Again, speaking on things which we know nothing of eh? Depending on the program/university Comp Sci and Computer Info systems may vary by a class such as science course which has nothing to do with computers. Dude did you even go to college? secondly as stated above, education, years of experience, work background seperates those who know from those who google

Regardless, in the windows/linux world is its the hardware companies that establish that their hardware configuration is stable.
There are a number of companies that make very good windows machines that are thoroughly tested. Of course there are other companies that put out junk. But you get what you pay for. *sigh* Again, it has less to do with hardware being stable or not. It has to do with designing software (which again if you know anything about the subject you would understand) on like hardware. It is difficult if not impossible to design software that will be as efficient as humanly possible when taking into account varying system designs. If you say ok, I will optimize this OS for this configuration, then it will run on said configuration. But when you start throwing in varying hardware components that act differently from your initial target system things start to act differently. Topic after topic you seem to throw yourself into conversations you know very little about it seems.

By the way, anybody look at Apples stock lately? When you remove the easy money people have to actually think about their purchases, all those college kids are going to have to go back to lowly PCs! Any high cost hyped product is going to do poorly during the recession....
*sigh*
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:00 PM
 
516 posts, read 1,751,273 times
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My son has a mac that he's been using, daily, for the past 2 years.

Two weeks ago, he told me "Dad, I want a REAL computer".
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 74,761,325 times
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Apple isn't a fad..it's a niche.

And it's Unix based which is more of a REAL computer than Microsoft windows.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,557,114 times
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Quote:
Depending on the program/university Comp Sci and Computer Info systems may vary by a class such as science course which has nothing to do with computers. Dude did you even go to college?
Computer science and Computer info systems are much different programs. After all, what would be the point of having two separate degree programs if all that distinguished them was a couple of classes? Computer science is intended to be more theoretical, where as computer info systems is intended to be for people that want to do things like Network Administration. And dude, yes I did go to college. I just don't have a need to talk about it like you. Perhaps, not many people you know went to college so people around you get easily impressed by things like bachelors degrees. I really don't know.

Quote:
It has to do with designing software (which again if you know anything about the subject you would understand) on like hardware. It is difficult if not impossible to design software that will be as efficient as humanly possible when taking into account varying system designs.
Yeah, unfortunately this argument doesn't hold anymore. OS X is now based on the Mach Kernel and many pieces of core software is NOT developed for Mac in particular, but rather the PC in general. The vast majority of the system level code is not even developed by apple.

Additionally, application developers are largely shielded from system level details so Mac has little edge in this area either.

Apple's "closed hardware" is good for about one thing - being able to charge more for their hardware.

If you respond, please don't 1.) mention your degrees, 2.) try refute my position by suggesting I don't know about the field (If you really want to have a contest here, I guarantee you I'll win by a hundred miles). Stick to arguments, nothing more nothing less.

Quote:
Apple isn't a fad..it's a niche.
These really aren't mutually exclusive. Apple in the computer world is certainly a niche product, I don't think anybody would disagree. But it can be a niche and a fad at the same time. I would suggest Apple is one big fad, unless they come out with another amazing product they are dead in the water. Their sales will slowly decline just like they did decades ago. At this point it may make sense to release their OS in the same fashion windows does.
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:10 PM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,766,746 times
Reputation: 2073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Computer science and Computer info systems are much different programs. After all, what would be the point of having two separate degree programs if all that distinguished them was a couple of classes? Computer science is intended to be more theoretical, where as computer info systems is intended to be for people that want to do things like Network Administration. And dude, yes I did go to college. I just don't have a need to talk about it like you. Perhaps, not many people you know went to college so people around you get easily impressed by things like bachelors degrees. I really don't know.


Yeah, unfortunately this argument doesn't hold anymore. OS X is now based on the Mach Kernel and many pieces of core software is NOT developed for Mac in particular, but rather the PC in general. The vast majority of the system level code is not even developed by apple.

Additionally, application developers are largely shielded from system level details so Mac has little edge in this area either.

Apple's "closed hardware" is good for about one thing - being able to charge more for their hardware.

If you respond, please don't 1.) mention your degrees, 2.) try refute my position by suggesting I don't know about the field (If you really want to have a contest here, I guarantee you I'll win by a hundred miles). Stick to arguments, nothing more nothing less.
Man you never stop do you. You don't know what your talking about. You never do, but I guess after I provide facts as usual you will mention your dislike for them (facts).

Computer Science link
(http://www.pace.edu/academic_psearch/display_program.cfm?Section=Curriculum&School=SCS& Cred=BS&Maj=CS&Location=NYC - broken link)
Computer Information systems link (http://www.pace.edu/academic_psearch/display_program.cfm?Section=Curriculum&School=SCS& Cred=BS&Maj=ISC&Location=NYC - broken link)

Oh and just a FYI, getting a degree in Computer Science or CIS will do NOTHING for you in terms of being a network admin (I know because I am in the field and have a CIS degree). Thats why they have certifications, that is where you will learn networking. Very few CS or CIS programs cover networking in any measurable amount. Not enough to get you a job or for you to be able to know what you are doing, so wrong again. Just go ahead google up some programs from some reputable schools. You will see, both deal with programming for the most part. CS is more for going on to masters and/or PHd while CIS is terminal, thats the difference. As i said before, depending on the program/school you attend will depend on the degree at which these two programs differ.

As for your babbling on and on and on about Apple versus MS Windows

link

As i said before, education and experience makes the difference between those who know what they are talking about via experience and knowledge and those who use google intermittly. I am sure you will come back with some remark about how links don't prove anything and how benchmarks mean nothing. Or how you dont like facts because they get in the way of your opinions or some such non sense. Or better yet, show us a graph from wikipedia or some wikipedia entry that links back to another wikipedia entry for your retort.

There are other bench mark tests on the net, i will leave that for others to research.

Anyway, the information is out there folks. just look for benchmarks comparing Vista versus Apple Leopard, Apple just makes a better product. Most people who deal with video editing, photography, web design, and many other intensive tasks use Apples, its always been that way.
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,557,114 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
but I guess after I provide facts as usual you will mention your dislike for them (facts).
Hmm....were you trying to establish my point? The course requirements are rather different. Not only that their CS requirements are fairly wimpy compared to good schools in CS. But regardless, these links show a big different in the two programs. Perhaps, you think all the classes are the same because some have similar titles. Why would the university do that? They wouldn't... The CS student will walk away with much more knowledge about programming/software, data-structures and system level details, algorithms even with the programs you linked.

Quote:
I am sure you will come back with some remark about how links don't prove anything and how benchmarks mean nothing
Dude, apparently you didn't read it. This is a benchmark of particular PCs, even the authors state that its not a benchmark of OS X vs Vista. This isn't how you'd try to benchmark operation systems against each other. For starters you'd pick hardware with the same specs, they didn't:

" The Gateway One PC had a processor that runs 400 MHz slower than its iMac competitor (not a heck of a difference in this age of dual-core chips), but it also had two extra gigabytes of DDR2 memory. In the laptop category, our Asus M51 had a 2.2 GHz processor, compared to 2.4 GHz for our MacBook."

Anyhow, it is not in any sense a benchmark of the operation systems even by the authors own words. Ironic you should claim others are simply googling.....

Quote:
Most people who deal with video editing, photography, web design, and many other intensive tasks use Apples, its always been that way.
The reason people involved in graphic arts tend to use macs is historic. There is no longer any benefit of one operating system over the other. It has nothing to do with Mac being "faster" than windows XP or Vista.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:56 AM
 
Location: America
6,987 posts, read 15,766,746 times
Reputation: 2073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Hmm....were you trying to establish my point? The course requirements are rather different. Not only that their CS requirements are fairly wimpy compared to good schools in CS. But regardless, these links show a big different in the two programs. Perhaps, you think all the classes are the same because some have similar titles. Why would the university do that? They wouldn't... The CS student will walk away with much more knowledge about programming/software, data-structures and system level details, algorithms even with the programs you linked.


Dude, apparently you didn't read it. This is a benchmark of particular PCs, even the authors state that its not a benchmark of OS X vs Vista. This isn't how you'd try to benchmark operation systems against each other. For starters you'd pick hardware with the same specs, they didn't:

" The Gateway One PC had a processor that runs 400 MHz slower than its iMac competitor (not a heck of a difference in this age of dual-core chips), but it also had two extra gigabytes of DDR2 memory. In the laptop category, our Asus M51 had a 2.2 GHz processor, compared to 2.4 GHz for our MacBook."

Anyhow, it is not in any sense a benchmark of the operation systems even by the authors own words. Ironic you should claim others are simply googling.....


The reason people involved in graphic arts tend to use macs is historic. There is no longer any benefit of one operating system over the other. It has nothing to do with Mac being "faster" than windows XP or Vista.
sigh and now for what the article really said:

Quote:
Our computers were closely matched, but in the interest of full disclosure, we’ll spit out the caveats: The Gateway One PC had a processor that runs 400 MHz slower than its iMac competitor (not a heck of a difference in this age of dual-core chips), but it also had two extra gigabytes of DDR2 memory. In the laptop category, our Asus M51 had a 2.2 GHz processor, compared to 2.4 GHz for our MacBook. But the Asus had a larger screen, a more sophisticated graphics card and an extra gig of RAM
so first, take your time and read lol. Secondly, the Gateway computer had the edge if you knew ANYTHING about computers and these new dual core chips. In the laptop category again the windows machine had the edge yet, OSx still out performed it, PERIOD. i will give it to you, even in the face of reality you stick to your guns. Oh and the why multimedia professions use Apples, try looking up benchmarks for CS3 on Apple as opposed to windows machine. You assumption is beyond silly. What is it exactly that continuelly perpells you to speak about stuff you are 100% ignorant about?

As for your "analysis" of those two programs, its not really worth discussing. i can tell you have no clue about programming courses. I have taken discrete math and data structures. Data structures will teach you about link list, sort trees and a few other things. None of which helps you to understand programming any better lol. Hell, the best programming class i ever took was a outdated class on assembly language. That is where you code directly to the hardware. Anyway whats the point, chatting up programming with a person who has no clue is exhausting. You are good for a chuckle though.
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