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Old 07-01-2008, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
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With all this talk of this decade's fads such as Starbucks fading with the collapsing economy - does anybody think this will apply to Apple also? Surely demand is going to drop for iPhones and iPods when you can get a standard MP3 player or flip phone for much cheaper, though its not as stylish. Opinions?
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
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Maybe. But Apple is about quality and ease of use too, even though the iPod has some serious ease of use issues.

Apple is innovative enough that I don't expect to see it fall. In fact, I think the percentages of Macs will only increase. Most of my office is Mac and with one exception every employee who has bought a computer since coming to work for us has bought a Mac. (The exception later regretted it.) The OS is just so much faster, more stable, and more intuitive than Windows.

So to answer your question - yes, I expect some serious competition to the iPhone and iPod (and iTunes too) but I don't expect that we will be calling Apple the company a fad in a decade. They will be the leader in something else by then.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
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Quote:
The OS is just so much faster, more stable, and more intuitive than Windows.
Oh a mac fanboy. Needless to say OS X isn't faster or more stable in any measurable way. What is faster after all? Thread management? Memory management? If you benchmark the OS' against each other you find OS X does better on some things and windows others. The reality is that the developers of unix (what OS X is based on) and windows know about the same algorithms.

Regardless, the only thing that impresses me about Apple is their marketing. They get people to pay almost double for some flashy graphics. For years Apple used to claim their hardware was better than PC, but alas they switched to the same hardware as us lowly PC users. Then they claimed their OS was better, but Apple is so bad at writing an OS that they decided to use the Mach Kernel. Essentially Apple just has to add flashy graphics and let the open source community do all the real work.

Anyhow, at least their computer line is similar to Starbucks coffee. You are paying double for a brand name/imagine. As people start cutting back they may decide to get a new dell for $1000 instead of a mac with the same specs for $2000. When you purchase something from Apple you are paying for a lot above and beyond the actual product, I think companies like this get killed in recessions as their business model is built around getting fat profits from their products.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:44 AM
 
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OS- X is Unix based. And guess where that was created? Oh yeah! THE PC!

To be fair though, I don't think Mac will be a fad. The company has a very good stategic marketing perspective. Their computer line is not similar to starbucks coffee in that it is not a commodity. It is a luxury good. Totally different markets, totally different approaches.
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:55 AM
 
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As both a PC and a Mac user, I'm amazed at the both the breathless adulation of the Mac guys and the elitist sneers of the PC/Linux/Unix world.

Here's the deal. Macs work better than PCs in terms of stability, reliability, and absolute ease of use. Day in and day out over the past three years, my Mac starts up, operates flawlessly, and does what it's supposed to. I have had one crash in three years of daily operation.

The other thing that Apple seems to get that others do not is the strategic nature of applications. In other words, the average user doesn't want to have to buy an Mp3 player, then research the music sources, then worry about the interface, etc. etc. etc. The user wants to plug in the cotton-picking thing and access music right away. What Apple figured out (And nobody else even comes close) was the entire distribution channel. The same thing is true of the iPhone. I have a Blackberry, and will probably stick with the thing for a while. But I've tried the iPhone, and realized that it's much more seamless. In short, Apple took an extra step or two to make the device as user friendly as possible. Now the rest of the mobile phone industry is scrambling to catch up. Which leads me to ask: How come Nokia, Samsung and the rest of those guys were content with mediocrity for so long?

My PC, however, offers a much broader range of use. However, I am really affronted that MS cannot seem to do better than Vista. What's wrong with these guys?

Overall, I use my computer to do a handful of things: Word processing, spreadsheets, internet, and a handful of specialized programs. That's it. Ask 95% of all users, and they'll probably say the same thing. That means that 95% of the computing world will do just fine with a Mac, except for those who do serious programming or people who squander their days playing Doom.

The other day, I helped a colleague with her Dell. After about 30 minutes of getting the thing to run, I realized something: I used to have to do this on a weekly basis with my own PC. Yeah, I paid 75% of the cost of a Mac, but more than paid for it in terms of lost productivity. So, when you look at it that way, I'll shell out an additional $500. For me, that's 4 billable hours. I spent way more time than that monkeying around with my PC on a monthly basis.

So, no, Mac's not a fad. Especially if MS doesn't get its act together. In the face of Microsoft's sclerotic product development, I'm betting that the Mac's market share doubles yet again in the coming year.

Last edited by cpg35223; 07-02-2008 at 07:04 AM..
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 5,589,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Oh a mac fanboy. Needless to say OS X isn't faster or more stable in any measurable way. What is faster after all? Thread management? Memory management? If you benchmark the OS' against each other you find OS X does better on some things and windows others. The reality is that the developers of unix (what OS X is based on) and windows know about the same algorithms.

Regardless, the only thing that impresses me about Apple is their marketing. They get people to pay almost double for some flashy graphics. For years Apple used to claim their hardware was better than PC, but alas they switched to the same hardware as us lowly PC users. Then they claimed their OS was better, but Apple is so bad at writing an OS that they decided to use the Mach Kernel. Essentially Apple just has to add flashy graphics and let the open source community do all the real work.

Anyhow, at least their computer line is similar to Starbucks coffee. You are paying double for a brand name/imagine. As people start cutting back they may decide to get a new dell for $1000 instead of a mac with the same specs for $2000. When you purchase something from Apple you are paying for a lot above and beyond the actual product, I think companies like this get killed in recessions as their business model is built around getting fat profits from their products.
I should have been more specific. Macs are much faster at multi-tasking. I'm not talking about speed tests you read about in a magazine. Go use a Mac and a Windows machine day after day (like I do) and you will see that the Mac is just faster at switching back and forth and doing several things at once. Windows may or may not be faster with any particular program.

I'm no Mac fanatic. Remember the USB keyboard that used to freeze up when the ports stopped working? (Windows has always been better with USB.) Remember when they dropped the floppy drive a few years before networks were ready for it? Even now, installing a printer is a pain on a Mac.

But they are not a fad. Compared across the board to a PC they are not much more expensive. Apple just doesn't sell low-end computers. So you can always buy a low-end PC for a lot less.

I don't see how you can say companies like Apple get killed in a recession. That seems like an odd statement to make given that we are in rough times now and Apple is doing just fine.

I will be bold here and say that 50 years from now there is a greater chance that Mac OS will still be around than Windows.
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,552,724 times
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Quote:
Macs work better than PCs in terms of stability, reliability, and absolute ease of use. Day in and day out over the past three years, my Mac starts up, operates flawlessly, and does what it's supposed to. I have had one crash in three years of daily operation.
I really hate when people state these things as facts. Macs "do not work better" in any sort of objective way. When a system crashes its more often than not the result of an application running in the OS than the OS itself. Regardless, I have a custom windows box with pretty exotic hardware and I can't even remember the last time it crashed.

Quote:
Compared across the board to a PC they are not much more expensive. Apple just doesn't sell low-end computers.
Yes they are more expensive, a lot more expensive. The desktops are dramatically more expensive, their laptops are modestly more expensive. I purchased a dell laptop about 1.5 years ago and I compared it with apple's laptops, they were $2,000 where as the dell was $1,500. Price difference is greater if you look at one of the cheaper lines, but then the quality is a bit different. The latitudes are the same quality though (Pretty much made with the same components). I just checked and the price difference is still around $500 bucks. Desktops by apple are almost double the cost.

Also, apple doesn't make low end computers? What is the mac mini, iMac or the standard macbook? These are low end computers.

Quote:
I don't see how you can say companies like Apple get killed in a recession.
Because they are selling overpriced products?

Quote:
That seems like an odd statement to make given that we are in rough times now and Apple is doing just fine.
Apple isn't doing just fine, check out their stock and look at their balance sheet + cash flow, here is the cash flow:

AAPL: Cash Flow for APPLE INC - Yahoo! Finance

As you can see they are slowing. But it will take more than a few months before people start to change their thinking/behavior. Longer term I think Apple's computer line doesn't look good.

Quote:
Overall, I use my computer to do a handful of things: Word processing, spreadsheets, internet, and a handful of specialized programs. That's it. Ask 95% of all users, and they'll probably say the same thing. That means that 95% of the computing world will do just fine with a Mac
They will do just fine with a mac, they will also do just fine with a PC. So why spend the extra money? They won't. I don't even think mac is interested in becoming like windows, its a very different business model. Windows makes money on volume where as Mac makes money by marking up their products and marking them to a particular niche. Mac users don't like to think they are paying extra for a brand and clever marketing, but they are. That is part of Mac's business model. Lower volume higher profits.

Quote:
Macs are much faster at multi-tasking.
This is pretty easy to benchmark and its not true. Multi-tasking comes down to thread/process management and the algorithms used in the Mach Kernel (which Mac uses) aren't any better than in Windows. If you noticed a difference it was most likely due to a difference in hardware. Now, back when Windows was built on top of DOS multi-tasking sucked in windows. Its funny that something that hasn't been true for over 10 years is still mentioned.
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:35 PM
 
19,090 posts, read 20,635,049 times
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Apple is big time FAD... it is nothing compared to a PC of the same price... that's why it is way, way overrated in performance... One thing that Apple has going for it is that it is highly compact compared to PCs... I expected Apple to die off years ago but it was saved by an innovative product... the iPod... however even the iPod can't save it from certain doom.. their products are way overpriced (like Sony) but unlike Sony, their products aren't exceptional... I have tried both and knew people who bought Macs because they "looked" cool, bought into the media hype, or had "friends" who have it (sort of like "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality, though they will never admit it)...
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:37 PM
 
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People like Humanoid and newbie have been telling me how lousy macs are for about 20 years now. They've been saying Apple was going to fold for just as long.

The real threat to Apple is Jobs retirement.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:01 PM
 
19,090 posts, read 20,635,049 times
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For the price of Mac, yup its lousy compared to an equivalent priced PC... but i am sure you are happy overpaying and that's fine... there is one born every minute...
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