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Old 07-11-2008, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,525 posts, read 51,123,777 times
Reputation: 20515

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Quote:
Originally Posted by baystater View Post
Bush has already cried wolf once. He can't get away with ...
When did that happen?



Quote:
... if bush put in ground forces in Iran I think I can safely assume it going to take more than 30 days for all American troops to clear out of the country after the first attack. By then instead of giving bush the OK this time to fight Iran they're going to probably slap with with Impeachment. Let me clarify that I mean Impeachment not removal from office.
Impeachment from one poor decision? [in the case of assuming that invading Iran were a 'poor' decision]

I do not see that happening to any US president.

 
Old 07-11-2008, 05:30 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 10,044,464 times
Reputation: 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
When did that happen?

Impeachment from one poor decision? [in the case of assuming that invading Iran were a 'poor' decision]

I do not see that happening to any US president.
Guess you slept through the run-up to the Iraqicide?

Might recall Bush and Powell both going to the UN and lying?

Bush openly lying to Congress and US in the State of the Union address?

Maybe Cheney and Rice going around talking about "smoking guns" and "mushroom" clouds?

Ring a bell, at all?

Hello?

At any rate, that is far more than a "poor decision." Overall it is criminal fraud and War Crimes.

But I agree with you that no impeachment is likely as both Corporate parties totally lack the moral behavior to cease this, as they both profit from it.
 
Old 07-11-2008, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,429 posts, read 5,807,967 times
Reputation: 1708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Guess you slept through the run-up to the Iraqicide?

Might recall Bush and Powell both going to the UN and lying?

Bush openly lying to Congress and US in the State of the Union address?

Maybe Cheney and Rice going around talking about "smoking guns" and "mushroom" clouds?

Ring a bell, at all?

Hello?

At any rate, that is far more than a "poor decision." Overall it is criminal fraud and War Crimes.

But I agree with you that no impeachment is likely as both Corporate parties totally lack the moral behavior to cease this, as they both profit from it.
Now. Now. To be fair there is no proof that the Administration out and out lied. (Granted I personally think they did work the intelligence to prove the case.) But the whole "Slam dunk" on the WMD's did shoot down most of the administration's credibility. Especially when we didn't find any. Of course the administration changed the sound bites to "liberating the Iraqis" when they didn't find WMDs.

So now if bush wanted to attack Iran it would take an actual large scale military assault by Iran on American forces to justify the U.S. getting involved in a ground war with Iran. Remember my Impeachment implication in on the stipulation we have a ground war in Iran.
 
Old 07-11-2008, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,525 posts, read 51,123,777 times
Reputation: 20515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Guess you slept through the run-up to the Iraqicide?

Might recall Bush and Powell both going to the UN and lying?

Bush openly lying to Congress and US in the State of the Union address?

Maybe Cheney and Rice going around talking about "smoking guns" and "mushroom" clouds?

Ring a bell, at all?

Hello?

At any rate, that is far more than a "poor decision." Overall it is criminal fraud and War Crimes.

But I agree with you that no impeachment is likely as both Corporate parties totally lack the moral behavior to cease this, as they both profit from it.
Been awake all along.

But I do not recall the events that you are listing.

On the other hand I do recall the tonnes of bio-weapons, the two mobile bio-weapon labs, and the thousands of artillery rounds that have been recovered.
 
Old 07-11-2008, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,525 posts, read 51,123,777 times
Reputation: 20515
Quote:
Originally Posted by baystater View Post
Now. Now. To be fair there is no proof that the Administration out and out lied. (Granted I personally think they did work the intelligence to prove the case.) But the whole "Slam dunk" on the WMD's did shoot down most of the administration's credibility. Especially when we didn't find any. Of course the administration changed the sound bites to "liberating the Iraqis" when they didn't find WMDs.

So now if bush wanted to attack Iran it would take an actual large scale military assault by Iran on American forces to justify the U.S. getting involved in a ground war with Iran. Remember my Impeachment implication in on the stipulation we have a ground war in Iran.
Some folks seem to insist that only nucs are WMDs.

Being career military, I hold a wider view of WMDs.

Bio-weapons, Chem-weapons, and nuc.

When the threat of Iraq's WMD were first brought out, one definition was accepted by all. Now a different definition seems to be held by many.
 
Old 07-11-2008, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,208 posts, read 22,808,354 times
Reputation: 6183
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That is so funny..just replace "Iran" with "Iraq" and you have deja vu.

Where are the people of Iran screaming for us to come in and save them ?
Links please.
I don't think that any Iranian wants to be 'saved' by the US or anybody. However, the typical Iranian has no beef with the US. Yes, there are some Iranians who hate America, just like there are some Canadians who hate America or some Dutch who hate the Finnish or some Mexicans who hate Hondurans. Who cares.
 
Old 07-11-2008, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,429 posts, read 5,807,967 times
Reputation: 1708
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Some folks seem to insist that only nucs are WMDs.

Being career military, I hold a wider view of WMDs.

Bio-weapons, Chem-weapons, and nuc.

When the threat of Iraq's WMD were first brought out, one definition was accepted by all. Now a different definition seems to be held by many.
FOXNews.com - Report: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq - U.S. Senate (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html - broken link)

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

Quote:
Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.
So from 2003 to when this article was written (2006) we have only discover 500 antiquated munitions. Noticed they used the word "degraded" in other word they were old weapons from the Iran and Iraq war that didn't get used. I guessing that while the stuff is still dangerous when used with in close quarters. It wasn't going to be a threat to the U.S. and time soon. These finds are only slightly better than grasping at straws.

Well guys this is basically starting to unfortunately breakdown into a political thread and maybe it should be moved to the P & C board. Too bad I would have liked seen more economic views on this type of scenario.
 
Old 07-11-2008, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,208 posts, read 22,808,354 times
Reputation: 6183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Bush can legally commit ground forces without a declaration of war under the War Powers act, so no, he won't be impeached.
And where would he get these ground forces? The U.S. infantry is already stretched thin enough as it is and anyone who has been in the military would know that it takes time to train and mobilize troops. By the time enough ground forces were trained and ready to go (even troops in Iraq would have to be trained and mobilized for the new missions; objectives), Bush would be out of office. Another thing; do you really think that it would be a smart move to commit the combat weary soldiers who are (were) in Iraq or Afghanistan? They are basically fighting a guerilla war right now; against an enemy that is basically fighting with automatic rifles and improvised explosives. How do you think these soldiers would feel when they are told that they are now going to be fighting against a fully functioning military complete with an air force, tanks, artillery, cruise missiles, everything. If the U.S. does go to war with Iran then it is going to be handled by the Navy and Air Force with maybe a few special forces on the ground.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
However, the reality is that Bush could probably consult with House and Senate leaders and get a tentative declaration of war without a full vote by the House or Senate.
The President has the power to commit forces where ever he sees fit without a declaration of war. Remember Vietnam? The first Gulf War? Grenada? Panama? Somalia? Just to name a few.
 
Old 07-11-2008, 11:31 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 10,044,464 times
Reputation: 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Been awake all along.

But I do not recall the events that you are listing.

On the other hand I do recall the tonnes of bio-weapons, the two mobile bio-weapon labs, and the thousands of artillery rounds that have been recovered.
The "bio-lab" farce were some old Artillery Balloon filling sites >>>

CNN.com - Tests rule out suspect bio-labs - Apr. 15, 2003

The Artillery Shells (there were not thousands) had already been tagged by the UN, and were dug up from a dump. That is not a stockpile, either >>>

</title> <LINK REL="STYLESHEET" HREF="../style.css" TYPE="text/css"></head> <script language="javascript"> function Clickheretoprint() { var disp_setting="toolbar=yes,location=no,directories= yes,menubar=yes,"; disp_setting+="scrollbars=yes,width=650, (http://www.sun-herald.com/Newsheadline.cfm?headline=4922&banner=2 - broken link)
 
Old 07-20-2008, 10:24 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,484,473 times
Reputation: 5180
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That is so funny..just replace "Iran" with "Iraq" and you have deja vu.

Where are the people of Iran screaming for us to come in and save them ?
Links please.
You really don't get it. The fundamentalist in Iran while being the minority, are in charge. They are also irrational, suicidal, morons who would not object to sacrificing themselves and the majority of the people living in Iran if they thought they could launch a nuclear attack on Israel or the U.S. This is not about how much a war would cost, or if the undereducated dill weeds here in America support another war, it is about preventing the inevitable nuclear holocaust that would happen if Iran were allowed to have the ability to make nuclear weapons.
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