U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-26-2008, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,193 posts, read 4,616,152 times
Reputation: 1075

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
All true, so very true.

But I think this whole argument is without merit. The Fed will DIE. Every un-backed paper fiat currency in history has DIED. Usually after about 30-35 years. If you count 1971 when Nixon closed the gold window as the start of pure fiat, then our currency is now 37 years old.

It can't possibly last much longer, and it won't. What we are going through now - and will for the foreseeable future - is the death throes of another failing un-backed paper fiat currency. No way to stop it.
Even if the Fed dies and if all unbacked paper fiat currency fails as well, what is left? Gold had its issues as it can be easily stolen and debased and even when the dollar was backed by gold there was issues too.

I think any system is dependent upon the honesty of the people in charge of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-26-2008, 01:21 PM
 
18,353 posts, read 16,306,069 times
Reputation: 7154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
All true, so very true.

But I think this whole argument is without merit. The Fed will DIE. Every un-backed paper fiat currency in history has DIED. Usually after about 30-35 years. If you count 1971 when Nixon closed the gold window as the start of pure fiat, then our currency is now 37 years old.

It can't possibly last much longer, and it won't. What we are going through now - and will for the foreseeable future - is the death throes of another failing un-backed paper fiat currency. No way to stop it.
Hi Nor'Eastah,

I think every currency has died or failed. Gold died as well. Money is all about mentality and trust.
Now again the issue is not so much the Fed I think. We have been without a Fed before but not without fractional reserve banking for quite some time. I think I agree that fractional reserve banking is of far more concern than what backs the currency. A gold backed fractional reserve currency still becomes thin air. What good does it do to have a "real currency" acting as a base for more and more hot gas of the loan cycle? They can just keep slicing the reserve ratio and just commit more fraud like they used to do like a few gold coins sprinkled over a barrel of nails.
The only backing a currency can have are skeptical well informed citizens who understand how their money works. If they just say let it be "gold" and go back to their regularly scheduled fun for monkeys programming the banksters can drive the same wheel barrel full of lead pipes and a few gold bricks on top around the block over and over again. The modern way will be "see your gold bullion on web cam" that is just a tape on a loop. "Sound" currencies are always debased under the noses of an ignorant populace and they consistently fail. If they didn't we would be using it now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2008, 01:32 PM
 
1,772 posts, read 4,075,949 times
Reputation: 4740
Exactly. The problem is the existence of the federal reserve and fractional reserve banking. The solution, more than arguments for/against gold themselves, is restoring the currency power to the government, as the Constitution intended, and away from private interests, which I need to emphasize are not to be protected since they do not represent the average individual.

The government is useful in so far as it represents you. Take away the control of money creation from the private plutocrats, and restore it to the government, entity which currently belongs to the plutocracy, and you effectively regain control of the Government. Do away with boom and bust economics and you increase the quality of life of the many at the expense of the few. I'm happy with that, Citi group top floor is obviously not. There are more of me in the street than there are of them, so why do we subject ourselves to that serfdom? Time to wake up. Life without the Fed would be a life of less desperation and stress and a closer reach to that "dream", if it ever existed and in whatever form you individually define it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2008, 01:41 PM
 
Location: NC
10,002 posts, read 9,271,843 times
Reputation: 3074
downsides of no federal reserve a depression every 20 years.

Pre fed. We had the panics and depressions of

1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, and 1893

Post fed.

1929.....maybe 2008 still unclear if it will be a long term depression like the others listed were.

Even if it does turn out to be a long term depression, I will take a depression once every 80 years over once every 20 years any day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2008, 02:53 PM
 
1,772 posts, read 4,075,949 times
Reputation: 4740
Um, No. There have been fed-like institutions (such as the Bank of the United States) that have fought our government in the same century you argue said economic unrest happened, that created said unrest by constricting and inflating the currency at will, against the welfare of the government and the People (google 20 year bank charters of the bank of US). So those were NOT pre-fed times, they in fact existed in the presence of fed-like institutions. Thank you for arguing my own point for me.

Life without the Fed would not be filled with inherent periods of economic depressions, those are more a function of unstable currencies like the current federal note, thanks TO the Fed. Also, WWII has greatly tempered the inevitable boom-bust cycle that's inherent in our monetary system during the supposed century (20th) that contrasts the 19th century you lowly speak of. You cannot credit to the Fed with the spoils of WWII and their economic benefit. War, death and waste production are credited with substantiating the illusion of economic stability alleged on the Fed. Not a great track record, and we haven't even touched on the lack of Constitutionality of said institution, which goes to the heart of manufactured consent and why we work so hard to earn so little and are taught to concentrate on irrelevancies like elections of same-minded people in lieu of attacking the actual issue (the core of our economic structure) that keeps us shackled. Misinformation, even when well-intended, such as the claim that the nonexistence of the Fed creates cycles of depression, is part of that scheme.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2008, 05:11 PM
 
Location: NC
10,002 posts, read 9,271,843 times
Reputation: 3074
The bank of the United States died in 1811 and was brought back only after a period of Hyper inflation that insued after it was dissolved and while the second bank did have problems it had just started up when the depression of 1819 hit after which it was subsequently dissolved and the depressions kept on roling. We tried life without a central bank and it was filled with periods of inherant depressions. Additionally if WWII did temper the boom bust cycle but so did the civil war in much the same way (large government spending and a long post war reconstruction period which fuled growth). Yet the depressions continued with the same frequency without a central bank. We did do it your way at least between 1811-1816 and 1833-1913 and had rampent inflation and a depression every 20 years. It failed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-27-2008, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 24,267,347 times
Reputation: 4927
Central banks have been an issue since the beginning. Thomas Jefferson was against them, and Andrew Jackson opposed them as president. You can be sure that bankers supported and even pushed for wars to increase their wealth. Without wars debts would be repaid and bankers would have reduced income. People mistakenly attribute economic benefit to central banks and fractional reserve lending, but in essence it is a corrupt system where the value of many people's work is concentrated into a few greedy hands. Central banking allows big centralized government.

My biggest complaint about the FED is its secrecy. They manipulate interest rates and create money to loan to whomever they please with no oversight. No auditing and no public input. Why are their meetings secret? The closed door operations bring to mind fat cats smoking cigars laughing all the way to the bank...oh wait they are already the bank.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2008, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,256 posts, read 8,580,784 times
Reputation: 19674
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallrick View Post
People mistakenly attribute economic benefit to central banks and fractional reserve lending, but in essence it is a corrupt system where the value of many people's work is concentrated into a few greedy hands. Central banking allows big centralized government.
Exactly. A lot of revisionist history being touted here. You didn't think the banksters were just going to sit back, and not glorify their role in American life, did you?

Homework assignment: go to the Fed web site and see what it has to say about itself!

And yes, central banking DOES allow big centralized government. I for one, think we'd all be better off with less government in our lives.

"That government is best which governs least" - Henry David Thoreau
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2008, 11:53 AM
 
12,869 posts, read 13,437,617 times
Reputation: 4453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
Exactly. A lot of revisionist history being touted here. You didn't think the banksters were just going to sit back, and not glorify their role in American life, did you?

Homework assignment: go to the Fed web site and see what it has to say about itself!

And yes, central banking DOES allow big centralized government. I for one, think we'd all be better off with less government in our lives.

"That government is best which governs least" - Henry David Thoreau
amen to that!
"Government is not reason, nor eloquence. It is force. And like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearsome master."
-- George Washington

certainly americans have been forced into these bailouts, with the majority of americans objecting to them (and more to come).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Boise burb
238 posts, read 778,313 times
Reputation: 87
Default back to the top for this thread

Yes we are owned by masters, and yes they will continue to own us no matter how many understand who their true owners are... Quick question, who own's their roof?... hands down retired people who have slaved a lifetime for the right to shelter... all others, Listen. This has been predicted many many years ago, we will be enslaved, we will ask for more, we will have one world government, we will have one world e-money, we will beg for it (due to another contrived crisis: identity theft, coming soon), and we will have as ol' G-dub said an "ownership society"... we don't own it. We never will, history was writen years ago, and it will continue it's march toward the future's inevitable end. Best of luck to all along the way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:51 PM.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top