U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-05-2009, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,767 posts, read 65,654,187 times
Reputation: 32951

Advertisements

It is possible that the CEO(s) will have to return the golden parchute money in the bankruptcy. It could be deemed a preference. Not sure.

My fater is a GM retireee. He worked for the company for over 30 years. This year they cut his insurance but increased his pension $300 a month as compensation.

They told him that his pension is seperate and is no controlled by GM so it should not be affected by the bankruptcy. I do not kow enogh about it to know if this is true or not. I hope so. Without the pension, he and my mother cannot survive. Social security is a joke. They simply have nothing else to live on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-05-2009, 05:19 PM
 
48,509 posts, read 86,173,019 times
Reputation: 18105
Basically his pension is now in teh hands of the unions sahre of the comap0ny. Its like anything else that is invested ;the out come depends if GM can turn around or if it keeps building debt.All you can do is stay tuned.But looking at healtcare it seems the administrion is pushing to tax healthcare not paid by the indivdaul as income in order to pay for the proposed universal healthcare. Its not certain if this just is payments made by private means or if governamnt payments will be taxed as income yet. Again stay tuned as this could cost everyone that pays income taxc and make sone pay that didn't before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2009, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,820 posts, read 4,082,744 times
Reputation: 1909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
It is possible that the CEO(s) will have to return the golden parchute money in the bankruptcy. It could be deemed a preference. Not sure.

My fater is a GM retireee. He worked for the company for over 30 years. This year they cut his insurance but increased his pension $300 a month as compensation.

They told him that his pension is seperate and is no controlled by GM so it should not be affected by the bankruptcy. I do not kow enogh about it to know if this is true or not. I hope so. Without the pension, he and my mother cannot survive. Social security is a joke. They simply have nothing else to live on.
I do feel for people such as your father and am sorry they may have to face that... my father who worked for the same company (non-union) for 35 years also lost his pension, my mother ( a surgical RN ) for the same hospital for almost 40 years,also lost her pension! nothing.
They now live on what they may have had ,and social security AND I have a grown adult sister who needs around the clock care,,, so,we understand and certainly wouldn't wish that on anyone....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-10-2012, 07:12 PM
 
358 posts, read 156,270 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMD67 View Post
I do feel for people such as your father and am sorry they may have to face that... my father who worked for the same company (non-union) for 35 years also lost his pension, my mother ( a surgical RN ) for the same hospital for almost 40 years,also lost her pension! nothing.
They now live on what they may have had ,and social security AND I have a grown adult sister who needs around the clock care,,, so,we understand and certainly wouldn't wish that on anyone....
Sorry for resurrecting old post - but how can pensions be completely lost? I thought they were protected by PGC?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 01:07 AM
 
4,173 posts, read 3,057,088 times
Reputation: 2629
They are not completely lost. But, PBGC may not provide the same level of pension. There are limits on the maximum, for instance.

A. PBGC guarantees “basic pension benefits” as provided by your pension plan, subject to legal limits. These benefits include:
  • pension benefits at normal retirement age,
  • most early retirement benefits,
  • disability benefits, and
  • annuity benefits for survivors of plan participants.
The guarantee applies only to benefits earned before the plan terminates; however, if the plan terminates while your employer is in bankruptcy, the guarantee may be limited to benefits earned before the bankruptcy. Additional limitations may apply to certain airline industry plans.
The pension benefit PBGC pays depends on:
  • provisions of your plan,
  • legal limits,
  • the form of your benefit,
  • your age,
  • plan assets, and
  • how much PBGC recovers from employers for plan underfunding.
We do not guarantee health and welfare benefits, severance and vacation pay, life insurance, lump-sum death benefits, certain other death benefits, and other non-pension benefits. PBGC benefits are not increased for cost-of-living adjustments (COLAs).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 02:22 AM
 
77,689 posts, read 76,699,732 times
Reputation: 54582
welcome to the real world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 06:43 AM
 
344 posts, read 382,442 times
Reputation: 318
I hate to hear of anyone promised something for so long and it taken away. Its got to be tough. That being said, its always best you save for your own retirement, because anything can happen to a company. Companies have been operating "loosely" for decades and it is now coming back to haunt folk. SS is something you cant depend no as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 08:04 AM
 
6 posts, read 8,246 times
Reputation: 20
I think I messed up 10+ years ago when I opted for defined contribution pension instead of defined benefit pension (we had a choice). Doubt the DC end amount will provide the same monthy income the DB would have (mind you DB plan is not an overly generous one). Of course DC depends on investment returns over the next 20 years.

However, hearing these stories makes mw wonder if perhaps my decision was not totally bad, if I look at it from the perspective of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 08:27 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,951 posts, read 23,370,141 times
Reputation: 15543
Quote:
Originally Posted by proverbs23and7 View Post
I hate to hear of anyone promised something for so long and it taken away. Its got to be tough. That being said, its always best you save for your own retirement, because anything can happen to a company. Companies have been operating "loosely" for decades and it is now coming back to haunt folk. SS is something you cant depend no as well.
You're right, you should save up for retirement like by investing in bonds maybe take advantage of an employee stock ownership program (ESOP). Yep, bonds are the safe way to plan for retirement! Oh wait, I forgot something. Not only are these retirees losing a lot of their pensions but they (along with many other non GM retirees) who actually believed the legal cr@p that's been in place forever that bondholders were secured and first in line lost most ALL of the money they had invested in this company.
But have no fear, around 50% of the spoils went to people who deserved it, the UAW.
We (the bond holders) did get a bone tossed our way (oh thank you so much Mr. President) of about .12 cents on the dollar given in common shares of the "new" GM and some warrants for 2016. Unfortunately like the american public the price of this garbage has to go >$50 to get close to being worthwhile.
Sorry, had to vent after looking the other day at my once $50-$60k worth of stock plus the nice monthly dividend now reduced to a few thousand of common stock that can't seem to hold $25 a share in a company who's long term survival is still in doubt.

I feel sorry for the GM retirees who had hundreds of thousands of $$$ buried in the company, they and we were always told "it's a blue chip company and safe,safe,safe" to put your retirement in.
Merry Christmas!
One nice thing and a great Christmas present for people in my position who were robbed at pen point, Michigan is now a Right to Work state. UAW!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 09:55 AM
 
6,259 posts, read 7,179,998 times
Reputation: 16287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackietrue View Post
I think I messed up 10+ years ago when I opted for defined contribution pension instead of defined benefit pension (we had a choice). Doubt the DC end amount will provide the same monthy income the DB would have (mind you DB plan is not an overly generous one). Of course DC depends on investment returns over the next 20 years.

However, hearing these stories makes mw wonder if perhaps my decision was not totally bad, if I look at it from the perspective of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

While on the surface, the DB might be a nice cherry, certain things have to happen for you to get it: like the company needs, in many cases, to survive.

DC is a little more flexible. It tends to be more 'market related' in terms of the benefit, but you can run and hide if you so desire. With DB, that is not an option...as the GM guys, who probably thought they were set for life, found out.

Your analogy of 'bird in the hand' is completely correct. The 'other' guy is always doing great (like all of the people who owned Apple shares), until he is not......(like all of the people who owned Apple and just saw $200/share of their money vaporize).

Slow and steady wins the retirement race....plus you can sleep at night. There is a lot to be said for that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 PM.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top