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Old 07-16-2008, 02:11 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Texas, Finally!
5,370 posts, read 11,046,121 times
Reputation: 2471

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Yep, the Eskimos were rumored to put their old folks out to sit on an ice block for the Polar Bears to come eat.

Just a return to some real old time Conservative Values.
Yeah, but you see, feeding the polar bears is giving back to the environment, so maybe the leaf lickers will be happy too.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Apple Valley Calif
7,474 posts, read 20,683,969 times
Reputation: 5629
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I'm in agreement with the posters that say 401K's are good. I have been max'ing mine out every year.

But from what I read that is what a minority of folks are doing.

We live in the age of government entitlement and I can't help but think they will want the government to fix all their problems and make sure they have a retirement check.
I agree that new hires think of 401 K as another grab on their money, and don't want to put money away for something that isn't going to happen for fourty years. What kid that age has half a brain? When you're 20, you are never going to be old..! That is why the new legislation Bush signed last year is a great deal. All employers are required to sign you up the day you start working. There is no requirement that you continue to increase your input, but most eventually get the message in time to have a few beans to eat by the time they retire. I think the message will get louder as times continue to change, and no companies give benefits anymore.
I worked for the government, and even they began cutting benefits years ago, so the new hires that followed me, better be prepared to look out for themselves.
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:38 PM
 
94 posts, read 303,129 times
Reputation: 45
Default Failure of Capitalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
So instead they should do what? Fire 10k people so they can keep their health care for retirement? Shut down a few more plants and layoff 20k people? Let these companes get away? Get away from what? Bankruptcy... You don't want them to get away from bankruptcy?
See, that's the failure of capitalism. It has to be tempered with social issues. Obviously, these companies cannot sustain lifetime retirement and health plan plans for everyone. That's why I don't understand why we haven't overhauled the social security system or the get on the universal health coverage bandwagon. The pluses of these systems far outweigh the negatives. As more people are left to save on their own (through 401K etc. and don't even get me started on the high fees charged by these 401K administrators), we will see more and more people get into poverty due to lack of savings (or minimal savings) and high health care cost. We also have to reign in the high cost of health care. Not GM, IBM, BoFa nor any of these big companies will be able to sustain the benefits for long term.
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Old 07-16-2008, 05:47 PM
 
76 posts, read 210,755 times
Reputation: 91
They may have lost healthcare but GM did give them an increase in their pension to help offset it. This was smart by GM seeing that healthcare will only continue to rise which will cost them (GM) more in the future. So now they basically capped the pension fund so it shouldn't increase in cost each year due to rising health care.
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Old 07-16-2008, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Stanwood, Washington
658 posts, read 674,771 times
Reputation: 172
Where in their employment contract did GM guarantee them a position? Sounds to me like spoiled children who have to learn what a resume is. The rest of us have been in the trenches without a union job to brag about. Time to buck up and shake off the hurt feelings. The bills don't care where the money comes from.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Stanwood, Washington
658 posts, read 674,771 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by renter07 View Post
See, that's the failure of capitalism.
There is no failure of capitalism. It is based on supply and demand instead of on need (socialism, the failed welfare system). Are you judging this economic cycle, true to its pattern, to be a failure of the system? LOL! History dictates that cycles are necessary to weed out overindulgence (mortgage crisis, etc). We are nowhere near the bottom of this cycle yet, though.

The other end of the spectrum is a booming economy. Only through capitalism may an individual with minimal funds use the stock market to become rich in a recession! How else would I see investors trading American stocks through American brokers through American exchanges, from Russia, where there is no capitalism? Furthermore, in what other nation can you legally become wealthy while the country is going through hard times?

Don't kid yourself, American capitalism rules opportunity, with no equal, not even China. Time will tell that one...

Capitalism is the framework of the cycle, and the cycle is showing itself to be true and predictable over time, not failed.

Last edited by jamesandveybe; 07-16-2008 at 07:09 PM..
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:14 PM
 
8,778 posts, read 17,205,982 times
Reputation: 5259
I wonder how many of our employer's even contribute $300/monthly toward their active employee's HI premiums, let alone a retiree?
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,964,569 times
Reputation: 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You sir are in the minority though. Workers are not forced to put anything in their 401K so we should not assume they are max'ing it out every year.]
If they (workers) don't take an interest in their financial well being then I don't feel sorry for them.

I never worked for a company w/a pension system, only a 401k. I like having control of my money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
And your 401K can LOSE money in any given year while pensions are guaranteed fixed income..]
If you invest in anything other than cash like investments (taxable or not) of course your balance can go down. But that does not make a better case for pensions. Actually your making a bad argument because there's less risk/less reward w/a pension system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
A year old but this article shows some median and average 401K balances for various age groups and they are not big balances. Given this last year though I'm sure many people lost value in their 401K because the bulk of it is invested in equities.]
I lost money in my 401k balance I'm sure, however overall I've done extremely well w/the overall long term gains I've made and I'm comfortable w/my 80/20 split of equities to bonds....I can sleep at night.

I don't look at the balance maybe couple of months when its time to rebalance.....what's the point?
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,901,138 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Wow, I can't think of anyone else who gets lifetime health coverage.....


Oh yeah, congress does.....
I thought they only got them until age 65. That is how most companies work anyway.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 21,901,138 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
I think you're selling the 401k short.

If I work for 35 years investing wisely the maximum in my 401k I'll have way more than any pension would've given me.....

You don't agree?
Yes but the pension is there for life. You can outlive your 401-K.
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