News, Shell-shocked GM retirees react: 'This is a knife stab in the back' (loan, debt)

[le roi]

Originally Posted by GregW

You business junkies wonder why most folks DO NOT TRUST BUSINESS of any kind.

You union junkies wonder why most folks do not trust unions of any kind.

[Steve Bagu]

With all the thousands of GM workers...wonder what percentage drive their own product to support their own paychecks?

[Briolat21]

Don't know about all of them, but my family has been a strictly GM family all my life. Even with my dad retiring, we have still bought GM. Once dad is gone, I'm not sure. I'm a pontiac person and with Pontiac going away, I just don't know if I'll be able to find something in the chevy line up.

[NYMD67]

Originally Posted by rubber_factory

You union junkies wonder why most folks do not trust unions of any kind.

so true...

I have to say something-yet again. As some will note from previous discussions on these boards,I have a brother who works for DELPHI in WNY,as well as some very close friends...
My brother actually briefly engaged himself in a conversation here on another thread in response to another post(s)...
He fully admitted that he works where he works because he had no ambition to go to college (of which I can fully vouch for) and at the time,it was an "easy" way to make a good living. He could have cared less honestly as to whether the job was w or w/out a Union. He came to of course,appreciate the protection it gave him.
On the other end of the scope was my opinions,in which he fully understands and respects,especially in today's environment.
Our friends however who work for them,see it as their right to make the salary they make,get the vacay they get,etc.... our conversations usually try to stay away from anything having to do with unions.

The reason for responding though is this.... my brother and friends are right now on some thing called a TLO (temp.layoff),but do you want to know what my brother is doing right now as I write this??? he is on a vacation,in CA ,in the sunshine,loving life because you know why???
He is still getting paid 85% of his salary and unemployment is picking up the other!! basically,as my brother puts it " I am on one sweeeett vacation right now" ! unbelievable I say!
Yesterday,I was on the phone with the wife of one of our friends who also is on his TLO and do you want to know what they were doing??
They were enjoying a lunch out together while the kids were at school and THEN they were going shopping for new appliances for their kitchen-because otherwise they were bored....
hmmmm wow- if only all of those other non-union people who are being laid off or being asked to take furlough's,etc..could say they are doing the same thing.... taking vacations,going out to lunch with their spouses,etc..
Seriously.. THIS is why people are against unions among of course other reasons.
There is no reason why these people should be paid money to be on a lay off,not today,not when their plant is being purchased by a bankrupt GM.
No way.
I will state again for those that didn't see my previous post,I am a dem.I believe that we as a country, we should certainly try to help our people,to help our businesses,etc... I believe that our president has done and will continue to do great things,but this is where I see things that are wrong.
These union people are now (and again,I am ONLY referring to the union workers that I know ) basically getting extended ,paid vacations on let's face it, our money. I don't support that at all.
I think that GM needed to have been helped,but I don't believe that the union did and certainly not so that their employees could have a free ride for the Summer...

[GloryB]

NYMD67..............your post explained exactly why these companies are in trouble.

[GregW]

NYMD67 - thank you for your post. It explains exactly why all of us need strong unions. Why should only the managers and investors benefit from their work? The GM workers are not getting a "free" vacation they are receiving a benefit negotiated for them by their union and agreed to by GM's management. It is a great deal for the workers but the managers did not have to sign the contract.

Hey, a deal is a deal. Now go out and form a union and get such a deal from your employer.

My slogan of the day – “Prosperity for all, privilege for none.”

[floridasandy]

i think the message is get yourself a union, screw up, and then be owned by the government. that does not help american workers out at all!

[jimj]

Originally Posted by GregW

NYMD67 - thank you for your post. It explains exactly why all of us need strong unions. Why should only the managers and investors benefit from their work? The GM workers are not getting a "free" vacation they are receiving a benefit negotiated for them by their union and agreed to by GM's management. It is a great deal for the workers but the managers did not have to sign the contract.

Hey, a deal is a deal. Now go out and form a union and get such a deal from your employer.

My slogan of the day – “Prosperity for all, privilege for none.”

Certainly they had to sign OR they'd have been shut down by a strike losing millions. The mistake the auto makers and many other union companies have made is letting it get to the point that they did. The should have said heck no early on, let 'em strike and keep them out until common sense prevailed just like a couple companies in CA did years ago (which are still on strike to this day after 20 years btw).
There has to be a balance but the workers (contrary to the communist/socialist views I've read here) do not deserve an equal or lions share of what the company earns JUST because they work there. They take no financial risk working there, they have no financial "skin" in the game and can just walk away to another job at any time leaving owners and management to take the hit and lose everything. As for the UAW, I hope they enjoy their paid summer vacation because for many the best case is it'll be the last one for a while and for some it may just be the swan song for their jobs. Were I them I'd be staying home and banking the $$$$ now that the gravy train is derailing.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by GregW

NYMD67 - thank you for your post. It explains exactly why all of us need strong unions. Why should only the managers and investors benefit from their work? The GM workers are not getting a "free" vacation they are receiving a benefit negotiated for them by their union and agreed to by GM's management. It is a great deal for the workers but the managers did not have to sign the contract.

Hey, a deal is a deal. Now go out and form a union and get such a deal from your employer.

My slogan of the day – “Prosperity for all, privilege for none.”

That's what you took from that post ? Seriously ???

And idiots wonder why the US is in the economic condition it is...

[Icy Tea]

Where's Ralph Nader in all of this? If nothing else, he's the guy you'd want overseeing safety and employee concerns if you had to have a liberal to do the job. Is he still persona non grata among the far left, is that why Obama is snubbing him?