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Old 11-14-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 45,470,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
Four years of treading water economically, an increasing national debt, rising annual deficits, more people on food stamps than ever, more and more cities and states declaring bankruptcy, unemployment growing, higher gas prices and now worry over the fiscal cliff is chilling the weak stock market recovery, what there was of it.
Low interest rates and bailouts kept things on life support but that is not enough any more. Oh well, one mans recovery is a lot of other peoples continued recession.
We're a lot closer to bangladesh( why pick on Bangladesh?) or Mexico or Brazil or Greece or Spain than ever. One bad regional disaster and we've seen how things fall apart. Imagine a national disater and its chaos time.
Desertsun, lets hope your prediction is still a ways off but I think many people are looking at it with less skepticism than previously.
I agree with you, probably because you are correct. And I also hope I am wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm right because all the indicators points in the wrong direction now as they did 4 years ago.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 45,470,693 times
Reputation: 10419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
1. We are not in any depression, deep or otherwise.
2. To cite one industry, whether construction or some other one, doesn't prove anything about the economy as a whole. There are various sorts of national statistics which measure the economy as a whole.
3. Your prediction that the Great Depression which started in 1929 would be chicken feed compared to what we were to be facing shortly (back four years ago when you wrote about it) was as wrong as wrong could be. It is amazing that you could conclude that your predictions were correct. Or perhaps your post above was an attempt at humor?
I admire you for being a positive thinking person. That makes you special. I say that in a really good way. But never ever forget that there are those who have no home, not enough to eat, no job, lost everything. All through no fault of their own. You may be one of the lucky ones. I consider myself lucky too though better times are behind me because my chosen trade has been devastated by the depression. And yes this is a depression by any and all NON government definition.

Aside from construction which has suffered the most, manufacturing, information, transportation, retail and even govt has shrunk in the past 6 years or so.

Here's the facts today:
Those who rule this country know the truth: It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. The American Dream has become the American nightmare when discussing our most precious possession.......our homes.

This govt still will not admit we are in a depression. A deeper depression then we had in 1928. The mere mention of the "D" word would send world economic markets into a spiral spin that would spin so out of control that the world economy would never recover. Instead this (not mine) govt chooses to invent new words not even in the dictionary yet called "Double Dip Recession" or "Great Recession". And the govt tells the nightly news to report to the Sheep this false info and the Sheep believe it.

Think about what would happen should that "D" word escape some politicians filthy mouth. It will never be said but it truly is what's going on. My eyes are wide open and my finger on the pulse of the economy. I wish I was wrong.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,372 posts, read 8,337,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
Don't blame him for it. He did not make the messes we are in now. He did not run up the deficit by cutting taxes for the rich while paying $200 billion a year for an elective war. And he did not devalue the dollar to peso levels. While I am optimistic that we are finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel, blame the idiot in charge for this mess.
No, he did not make the messes, he only intensified them. How can you point to the $2T of unfunded war debt while ignoring the additional $6T Obama has added? Clinton allowed the banks to SNAFU everything, Bush turned a blind eye to it, and Obama's administration added more debt (under the guise of solving it) than any other. Shouldn't blame be rendered equally where idiots are concerned?

Let's also keep in mind that under Obama the poverty levels have hit all time highs. Jobs aren't even keeping pace with job entries, household wealth has been dropping (12% so far), and COL has risen every year. Look at gas, electric, food, clothing prices.

Being 1/2 ignorant is still ignorance
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Tallahassee
305 posts, read 779,218 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
No, he did not make the messes, he only intensified them. How can you point to the $2T of unfunded war debt while ignoring the additional $6T Obama has added? Clinton allowed the banks to SNAFU everything, Bush turned a blind eye to it, and Obama's administration added more debt (under the guise of solving it) than any other. Shouldn't blame be rendered equally where idiots are concerned?

Let's also keep in mind that under Obama the poverty levels have hit all time highs. Jobs aren't even keeping pace with job entries, household wealth has been dropping (12% so far), and COL has risen every year. Look at gas, electric, food, clothing prices.

Being 1/2 ignorant is still ignorance
Much of the debt accumulated under the Obama administration was accumulated due to Bush era policies. It is also important that up until October of 2009 all spending was due to the budget conducted by the Bush administration. I believe the extension of the Bus Tax cut has drastically increased the national debt.

My other worry is that we are so focused on the national debt that we are not looking at all of the other problems. Consumer, business, and student debt all are much more closely linked with economic hard times. We also have major infrastructure problems that will hurt economic activity. I think this single minded focus on the national deficit is part of the problem. It is a major problem and needs to be solved but so do several other factors such as wage stagnation, and high costs of healthcare and education.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,372 posts, read 8,337,095 times
Reputation: 6645
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallahasseehero1 View Post
Much of the debt accumulated under the Obama administration was accumulated due to Bush era policies. It is also important that up until October of 2009 all spending was due to the budget conducted by the Bush administration. I believe the extension of the Bus Tax cut has drastically increased the national debt.

My other worry is that we are so focused on the national debt that we are not looking at all of the other problems. Consumer, business, and student debt all are much more closely linked with economic hard times. We also have major infrastructure problems that will hurt economic activity. I think this single minded focus on the national deficit is part of the problem. It is a major problem and needs to be solved but so do several other factors such as wage stagnation, and high costs of healthcare and education.
To say the Bush tax cut has increased the debt is a fallacy. The truth is that tax revenues increased during Bush's administration. The honest truth is that politicians are spending us into debt. It doesn't matter how much we generate in tax revenue, they'll spend over and above what comes in.

You can also thank Carter's administration for allowing the banks to remove student loans from bankruptcy protection. Because of this, the banks have gone out of their way to pour loads of debt on students.

1- because they are backed by the government.
2- they cannot be protected through bankruptcy.
3- the inevitable late pays and interest thresholds are generating thousands in additional fees for each loan, making them a goldmine which is immune to usery law.

Colleges, banks, and the government are colluding together to fleece students and their families. We can expect this to be one of the new bubbles that will definitely burst on an already weak economy.

The shovel ready jobs were supposed to be infrastructure improvements, and instead we got Solindra, ABC123 Batteries and no XL pipeline. This is what a pick and choose centralized government breeds.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:58 PM
 
12,576 posts, read 15,844,710 times
Reputation: 8547
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
I dont know about a Bangledesh but we are heading right for another Great Depression. All the signs are there.

Last year only 3 banks folded all year. This year we have 5 fold so far with several more on the brink. Citibank and WAMU are discussing bankruptcy.

Just 3 years ago, one in 7 Americans were on some form of Govt assistance. Today it is one in 6. Experts say by 2009 it will be one in 5.

Trillions of dollars in lost home equity.
People living off credit cards just to eat and buy gas.
$5.00 gas just months away.
Food prices twice what they were 3 years ago.
Growing global imbalances in the world economy is pretty hard not to see.
The US dollar is worth less then the paper it is written on.
Record foreclosures everywhere expecially Las Vegas, Miami and So. Cal.
Las Vegas has one in every 44 homes in foreclosure.
China is buying up our companies all over.
So many many of our jobs going to China.
The remaining jobs are taken by illegal aliens who work for $7/hr.
Raises are something we will read in history books.
Only Unions and Govt jobs still give raises. The very best companies toss a token quarter an hour per year for their best employees.
The ever fattening Federal debt is about a dollar from collapse.

What we are in for is going to make 1928 look like a blip on the map. Mark my words. Im saving this post and will repost it when it all crashes.
Four years later, a lot of that came true. Not a great depression but we definitely went through/are going through, a depression. Didn't get to $5 a gallon in many places, but when there is no job to drive to, you don't use as much of it.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Tallahassee
305 posts, read 779,218 times
Reputation: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
To say the Bush tax cut has increased the debt is a fallacy. The truth is that tax revenues increased during Bush's administration. The honest truth is that politicians are spending us into debt. It doesn't matter how much we generate in tax revenue, they'll spend over and above what comes in.

You can also thank Carter's administration for allowing the banks to remove student loans from bankruptcy protection. Because of this, the banks have gone out of their way to pour loads of debt on students.

1- because they are backed by the government.
2- they cannot be protected through bankruptcy.
3- the inevitable late pays and interest thresholds are generating thousands in additional fees for each loan, making them a goldmine which is immune to usery law.

Colleges, banks, and the government are colluding together to fleece students and their families. We can expect this to be one of the new bubbles that will definitely burst on an already weak economy.

The shovel ready jobs were supposed to be infrastructure improvements, and instead we got Solindra, ABC123 Batteries and no XL pipeline. This is what a pick and choose centralized government breeds.

When you adjust for inflation and real GDP revenues did not go up. As a share of GDP revenue was lower than it had been in the 1990s.


As for Solyndra, yes it was unfortunate but there are many examples of public investments into green energy companies. Focusing on one company provides you with a very narrow view on the topic.

The XL pipeline I think is not as goo an idea as many people say. One there are serious environmental concerns. The extraction method the pipeline would use is very environmentally unsound. Also we have many pipelines in the U.S. that are operating at full capacity that I think we should use more efficiently before building another one. Also much of that oil is being sent to the Gulf Coast where it will most likely be exported. Bloomberg News recently released an article that we are still on track to become the top oil producer in several decades, so I dont think keystone will make or break us.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:41 AM
 
18,988 posts, read 24,625,672 times
Reputation: 36497
No one seems to care that 47% of americans are on welfare- and beyond that, dems want to further punish the providers that make this possible....
when the days of financial reckoning come, and the checks no longer come in the mail for half the country, then maybe people will wake up..

unfortunately, we are seeing the tip of the iceberg with these lay-offs- again, all after the election, the media has protected this president like no other- its despicable

for the first time, I'm very very concerned about my kids america- the big money grab from congress and sleazeballs has already happened- congress is full of snakes, and we hear pretty words from our president, that never gets challenged

the only way out of this mess, is from the private sector, 85% of all business is small business, people trying to make a living- you cant be punishing them,

look at who is successful...walmart, if you go to walmart you'll see much of the 47% on welfare- but no one makes any connection to supporting walmart is killing other companys/jobs in the area, most of the products are from china-again no one cares, as long as the checks keep coming


ive always been an optimist for this country, but we will be 20 trillion in debt soon, no one cares, we can have 60% on welfare in 3 years, no one cares, we have more folks retiring than entering the workforce...no one cares..


as long as the checks keep coming in the mail.....none of this seems to matter....


brace yourselves, most wont agree with what im saying,,,because we make elections into american idol type competitions,
but brace yourselves, because we continue to punish the productive , the local taxes will keep going up- cost of fuel, and other commodities will keep going up, this will cause inflation, because local businesses cant print their own money or keep borrowing, because a business cant spend there way out of debt.

when you have college kids every year looking for jobs,,, mostly in the private sector, and companies are downsizing and closing, because they are being punished by the government, elections have consequences, and this is one


the private sector use to be the engine of this economy,,, you keep punishing achievement, this kills the cornerstone of our society,, but again, no one seems to care
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,662 posts, read 76,372,549 times
Reputation: 36232
Bangladesh? It sounds like the OP is overestimating the effects of global warming.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:55 AM
 
Location: N. Ga
3,771 posts, read 3,434,077 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallahasseehero1 View Post
The XL pipeline I think is not as goo an idea as many people say. One there are serious environmental concerns. The extraction method the pipeline would use is very environmentally unsound. Also we have many pipelines in the U.S. that are operating at full capacity that I think we should use more efficiently before building another one. Also much of that oil is being sent to the Gulf Coast where it will most likely be exported. Bloomberg News recently released an article that we are still on track to become the top oil producer in several decades, so I dont think keystone will make or break us.

While I agree that the extraction method's used by the gas companies needs to be clearly looked at the pipeline in and of itself has nothing to do with that extraction process. The crude and or gas as the case may be will still be extracted whether the pipeline is built or not. The pipeline is all about transport. Two completely different areas of the same industry, neither contingent upon the other. If the pipeline isn't built it'll just get transported some other way.

If all pipelines are operating at full capacity as you say, then the maximum amount of product is being transported also at the maximum amount of pressure. How do you make it more efficient? Turn up the pressure? That would, become more dangerous than anything.

And once again, the oil is being sent to the Gulf for processing. Not necessarily for immediate export. There is a huge difference between crude and refined product. For years we have been a net EXPORTER of refined product and an IMPORTER of crude. And while I agree that keystone alone will not make or break us, the fact that most of the general population has no clue about our oil/gas industry worries me. They believe what they read or hear, never knowing the facts, and fight every single pipeline because it is the "in" thing to do.
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