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Old 09-07-2008, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 76,820,773 times
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Hope someone is keeping tabs on our total..my calculator ran out of zeros

Auto industry to press Congress for $50B in loans: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080907/automakers_congress.html - broken link)

I bet the airlines are right behind them.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:39 PM
 
1,417 posts, read 963,798 times
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I saw Ford and GM being mentioned. Is Toyota asking the Gov. for $50billion? I don't think so.
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 76,820,773 times
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That's because neither Ford nor GM have kept their plants up to date while Toyota did and is able to switch out to produce vehicles other than SUVs and Trucks.

GM and Ford want low cost government loans to do this "to benefit main street not wall street".

Personally..I say let them fall on their own swords. Toyota reinvested in itself. Ford and GM probably gave their CEO's big bonuses instead.
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Ohio
22,798 posts, read 15,989,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That's because neither Ford nor GM have kept their plants up to date while Toyota did and is able to switch out to produce vehicles other than SUVs and Trucks.
That has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Both Ford and GM have old stodgy codgy Mustache Petes as engineers who gave us boring cars, and worse than that, they over-produced them year after year after year.

Every year, the rebates got bigger and bigger, and then there were rebates with "cash back" and then rebates, cash back and "customer loyalty bonuses" and then rebates, cash back, customer loyalty bonuses and "we'll pay off your trade-in even if you're upside-down."

On top of that, both are getting creamed by their retirees on health care.

There's no way GM and Ford can compete in the global market. As Chinese cars enter the foray, eastern European cars are right behind them.

That $50 Billion would be better spent, but the reality is that it's a lot of votes, so just kiss it good-bye.
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:36 PM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 16,044,560 times
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actually

bailing GM and Ford make out a ton of sense if you know what they are transitioning the economy toward.

Start looking at laws passed and you will see what I am talking about.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 76,820,773 times
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I disagree that we need to bail them out.
We bet on cheap oil while Toyota planned otherwise. We don't have to guess who won do we. But now they are asking for bailouts because they made a bad decision years ago and continued on that path.

Old article (3/2006) but:
When Did Toyota Start Working on Hybrids? | Hybrid Cars

snippet from that article:
"Jim Press, president of Toyota Motor North America, looks back at the mid-1990s, when the Prius made its debut and Ford rolled out its huge SUVs: "Both of us had the same tea leaves, the same research, " he told the New York Times. "One of us bet on hybrid, one of us bet on big SUVs." Toyota's hybrid program is a long-term investment. He asked, "Is fuel going to be cheaper or more expensive? Is the air going to become cleaner or more polluted? What's the right thing to do to sustain the ability to sell more cars and trucks?" The answers all point to hybrids. Press believes that every automobile in the U.S. will eventually be a hybrid "at some point in the not-too-distant future."
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:54 PM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 16,044,560 times
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^^

Think of it like this.

People complain about the way the economy is now right? F.I.R.E. economy is over now right? So they must transition us to something, innit? So, what are our advantages in? Well for one its our technology we still have some of the best universities in the world. We still have vast tech advantages. So I think they will be transitioning us to infrustructure alternative energy and mass transit. Look in the auto forum and see what the are doing with algae and bio diesel. I also read some where about these amazing electric grids they are working on. Then you take a look at the volt and other such cars. It all ties together and means many jobs for our citizens. We will need to do this if we are to remain viable. I do think that the government should make these companies restructure themselves and get rid of old hats in these companies as micea eluded too if they are going to give these people our hard earned money.

If I can find some links I will post some later about the electric grid, mass transit initiatives and alternative energies. Its ugly right now Happy but IF we play our cards right we can be a lean mean America again.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 76,820,773 times
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Well shoot Wild..if that's the case let's give Toyota the money..they planned right and can probably do it for less money. I know Toyota is foreign owned, but they have plants here and do employ US people and their mgmt seem to have the right vision as waiting lists for the Prius grow bigger and bigger.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:05 PM
 
28,900 posts, read 49,195,528 times
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Well, why the heck not? We gave oil companies billions in tax breaks and subsidies. We give agribusiness billions in tax breaks and subsidies. We give pharmaceuticals billions in tax breaks and subsidies. Basically, every major industry that begins to lose ground because it hasn't invested in its own competitiveness, they see the Federal government as the lender of last resort. Actually, the disease has spread to individuals.

What's next? Florists? Hot dog stands? T-shirt screen printers?
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:21 PM
 
Location: WA
5,538 posts, read 22,623,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Well shoot Wild..if that's the case let's give Toyota the money..they planned right and can probably do it for less money. I know Toyota is foreign owned, but they have plants here and do employ US people and their mgmt seem to have the right vision as waiting lists for the Prius grow bigger and bigger.
While Toyota and Honda both have leading mpg averages for the vehicles they sell, I wonder how much closer it would be if vehicles used primarily for commercial purposes are excluded. Three quarters of the trucks in my neighborhood are used by guys that must have a truck to make a living. You just can't carry or tow much with a Prius.
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