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Old 09-10-2008, 04:13 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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How bad will the economy get?
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
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The economy is very good for movie stars, rock stars, professional athletes, billionaires, and especially good for CEOs. The CEOs can run their company into the ground, then BIG Brother bails them out with our money, tells them they are doing one heckuva job, and gives them a massive severance package. What bad economy are you talking about?
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:33 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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The one with unemployment up, house prices going down, foreclosures going up, stock market generally trending down, dollar trending down, inflation of fuel and food prices, mortgage giants passing out and being held up by the govt, homelessness and hunger going up ... that bad economy.
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
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Well that economy only applies to the other 99.999% of us who don't fit into one of the categories I mentioned above.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
The one with unemployment up, house prices going down, foreclosures going up, stock market generally trending down, dollar trending down, inflation of fuel and food prices, mortgage giants passing out and being held up by the govt, homelessness and hunger going up ... that bad economy.
Blah, what bad economy? If your unemployed, you should get educated and skilled by paying absorbant amounts for training/education (assume more debt) and pull yourself out of it, if your house price goes down, pull yourself out of it, if you get foreclosed, it's because you didn't pull yourself out of it. If food prices and gas goes up, drive less and eat less and pull yourself out of it. It's all up to you... and all your own fault.

Of course, that's what the .1% would say as they cut jobs, receive government bailouts, move jobs overseas, push foreign investments (build massive state of the art facilities and fund education and training offshore for cheap/free - intel, cisco, ibm, microsoft, et al), complain about not enough qualified workers (H1b Visas), while collecting debt payments from their fellow Americans.

It's silly that it costs thousands of dollars for training, skills, software, tools, and education programs here in the States. While in another country, they're giving the training/education/tools/software etc for free or a la cheap.

http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquir...-50000-indians

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3319835.ece

http://www.thinkandask.com/news/ibmoutsourcing.html

No, wonder America's behind.


-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 09-10-2008 at 05:18 PM..
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
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While in another country, they're giving the training/education/tools/software etc for free or a la cheap.
I never get this sort of thinking. You realize its not really free right? You pay for it in the end. What is the difference between paying student loans over say 10~15 years after you graduate or paying for it via taxes your entire life? Its the same cost (actually probably more in the latter option).

Nothing is going to change until the general population changes their attitude towards science, engineering etc.


Anyhow, the economy is going to get worse but the pain is going to be localized too. Some states are going to see much more pain than others. Really, what needs to happen is a realignment of the economy. The economy that lasted 30 years or so during the boomers is over and this is going to have major ramifications in terms of investment (you aren't going to get 9~10% returns in the market, over the "long haul" like so many assume etc etc)..
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
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Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I never get this sort of thinking. You realize its not really free right? You pay for it in the end. What is the difference between paying student loans over say 10~15 years after you graduate or paying for it via taxes your entire life? Its the same cost (actually probably more in the latter option).
I'm not talking about socializing education. I'm talking about American companies investing billions into training/education/software/tools to train those overseas vs. training those here.

In a sense, aren't American consumers (by buying the end products) essentially subsidizing foreign education/training since the companies are going there paying/training these people for free? What are the costs to the people over there? The costs to the people here is... either you pay up to learn the skills/educated and assume more debt to get "competitive", or you don't work in that field. A lot have decided to move out of the field.

There's no interest in Science, Technology or engineering here, since there's no real investment in these fields on behalf of the corporations. If Intel, Microsoft, IBM, and other companies invested billions in new facilities in the States, I'm sure people will flow into these fields (like they are in medical fields and like they did in the 80s, 90s). The only real R&D we have here are our universities and existing facilities. I don't hear too many articles about companies training hundreds of thousands of Americans or investing in building billions in R&D centers, etc. All I hear are layoffs, downsizing, and outsourcing and oh yea... we're building this enormous facility overseas.

Corporations in the US grow through acquisitions (which usually means downsize in people and consolidation) vs. investments here. While they grow mostly through investments overseas.

-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 09-10-2008 at 06:13 PM..
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
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Quote:
I'm talking about American companies investing billions into training/education/software/tools to train those overseas vs. training those here.
I doubt they are spending "billions", but they can do whatever they want. They are private companies and if they want to train and hire people overseas that is their business. I don't blame them, many Americans are loafers that want to get paid $100k/year to do something basic.

Quote:
If Intel, Microsoft, IBM, and other companies invested billions in new facilities in the States, I'm sure people will flow into these fields.
So the companies are going to invest billions in new facilities that are going to remain relatively unused until just maybe Americans actually start to become interested in Science, engineering etc? Yeah, sounds like a great business plan. Kids aren't interested in science, engineering etc because the education system sucks and the culture in general doesn't see these things as "cool". If you are interested in Math and science in school you are a dork. Where as in China if you are interested in these things, you're seen as someone that is going to be successful. The problem is with America and its people not America business. America business is going to do what makes most sense for them, if they don't they will go out of business.

Quote:
All I hear are layoffs, downsizing, and outsourcing.
And thats what you'll continue to hear about until America changes. This isn't the businesses problem, its the American peoples problem.
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
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Quote:
So the companies are going to invest billions in new facilities that are going to remain relatively unused until just maybe Americans actually start to become interested in Science, engineering etc? Yeah, sounds like a great business plan. Kids aren't interested in science, engineering etc because the education system sucks and the culture in general doesn't see these things as "cool". If you are interested in Math and science in school you are a dork. Where as in China if you are interested in these things, you're seen as someone that is going to be successful. The problem is with America and its people not America business. America business is going to do what makes most sense for them, if they don't they will go out of business.
If they have to train hundreds of thousands of foreigners to fill these billion dollar facilities, then obviously the people there aren't up and running and ready yet off the get go. Check out Hyderabad, India (HiTech City)... and see how many prominent American Companies are there. Yes, they are spending billions out there... and using American consumer dollars at that. The universities and colleges in the United States are still far superior than those elsewhere. But, at a substantially higher price tag.

Hyderabad, India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I understand competition... and having to keep on the leading edge. All companies have to do that. But most companies invest more within it's borders and then invest elsewhere. Japan doesn't export the latest and greatest until its been through its' domestic market. China obviously tends to its' own industries. Europe also tends to invest domestically and then invest elsewhere (base on their R&D budgets), but American companies just don't care. Maybe American companies have to change it's culture, before there aren't any more Americans to buy any products. But I guess it's not their responsibility. It's alright, they'll have to learn the hard way when the Chinese refuse to assimilate American products in favor of Chinese, and the Indians, Russians etc. do the same.

Ask yourself? Why did so many Americans get interested into computers? science, engineering in the past (70s, 80s, 90s)? How did all these web technologies come about? Mainly because there was a profit motive behind them... and incentive. Why are the Chinese and Indians studying engineering, etc? because they can make a better living for themselves and their family. Likewise, in America, it looks like being a CEO, lawyer, stock broker, financier were the areas where you can make a living... so hence the popularity of those degrees.

-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 09-10-2008 at 06:57 PM..
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:51 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,299 posts, read 12,888,649 times
Reputation: 8068
OK .... now let's expand our view. How bad is the world economy going to get?
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