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Everyone always gets what they deserve. Where we end up in life is a result of the decisions we make and our ability to overcome our own demons.
People want to lay the blame of their failure on other people, but the truth is as individuals and as a nation, we are responsible for our own lot in life.
Irony is Boomers can't win. If we our retired living well we reaped the planet and need to give it back. If we are hurting in retirement we raped the planet and deserve our suffering. Now this is according to some. Most are just living life in their own lane and building their own highway.
The Op is just drownig i hos own self pity really. Others of his generation have achieve welath beyond anyhtig a bommer couold expect and that is shown bu income disparity. Its the difference between making your way as changes happen and thinking you some how inherit your parents lifestyle by some right that never existed for any generation.Conning yourself is very harmful .Survival is all about adpapting to chnage in many ways.
Honestly, I think my generation has been totally sold down the river.
Actually, I would say many of the boomers got sold down the river. We just got our start in the world at the bottom of the river. The boomers knew better times, although they weren't always as great as us younger folks like to believe. They were simpler times in some respects. You could go work on the assembly line and make a rather livable wage. Your back still hurt and your foreman still pushed you as hard as he could. There were times when jobs were hard to get though. Don't forget, many of the boomers were forced to fight a war that made no sense, and cost thousands of American lives.
Our generation is facing a dilemma. You could work an entry level job out of HS like the boomers did. It probably won't pay a livable wage though. Not unless you can learn some form of skill in the process. And at that, the company won't teach you unless you're a top notch performer, or a sharp learner. If you're average, you're probably gonna be stuck earning a crap dollar for years to come. In that case, taking your chances getting a college degree might be the better move. Even an average performer in many professional, or college graduate level jobs make decent money.
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Originally Posted by John23
-There should be a much more efficient student to work transition in this country.
How will this help? If half are overqualified for their jobs, that means we have too many students graduating. More jobs aren't created just because we have a surplus of grads. Student to work transition requires work to transition to. That's where the problem is. The last thing we need is more government intervention, which always costs the dying tax base. If anything, it will be another expense for businesses themselves, further limiting the growth of domestic jobs.
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Originally Posted by John23
41 million college grads in the workforce and 28 million jobs requiring a degree. That's crazy.
15% of taxi drivers in 2010 had a bachelors degree, vs 1% in 1970. For retail sales clerks...25% had a bachelors in 2010, less than 5% did in 1970.
You'd think the numbers would have stopped years ago, and we'd be going in the other direction. What's happened to apprenticeships in this country?
Companies realized they could reduce training costs by requiring a college degree for damn near anything. Make the kid pay for his own training instead of company paid training. The jobs aren't any more advanced. In many cases, technology is making these jobs easier, and the worker more productive/efficient. Companies just expect you to foot the bill to get your foot in the door now. And besides, college degrees are a great filter for weeding out the bottom half of our generation. Even more reason young people will continue to chase advanced education.
As for apprenticeships, same deal. Go sign up at the votech center to get your training. With so many boomers is the workforce, companies can get by with fewer entry level candidates though. Goodbye apprenticeship. You can do some crap work for a few years and maybe the company will move you up eventually though. Got a votech certificate? Who cares, boomers are going to be working longer than previous generations because many can barely afford to retire.
Why would vocational spending get cut if we have an oversupply of college grads?
Because nobody signs up anymore. Kids saw what happened to their blue collar parents. Layoffs, stagnant wages, illegal migrant competition, technology killing jobs. Skills often times don't pay the bills. The parents not only serve as evidence, but they flat out tell their kids not to do what they did. Go to college. Don't slave away for a wage that may not even afford the necessities. Get that professional gig so you can buy a bigger house and a nicer car. Get the job that will attract a successful spouse, or at least a more attractive one.
But you're right. We do have an oversupply of grads. There are only so many professional level jobs to go around. Some of the young folks are going to have to take jobs offering less upward potential and less income. These jobs are still the backbone of our economy and social structure. One way or another, some young folks are going to be forced into these occupations whether they like it or not. That is, if they want to move out of mom and dad's house.
The question remains though... If no one signs up for those vocational programs, why would you invest in them? Many of these vocational programs require quite a bit of money. A shop class may cost thousands in machinery. All that money, just to teach the few interested students how to do the job? A job that may very well be in China? On paper, it would seem like a wiser investment to teach 30 young folks how to write poetry. All you need is the space, a projector, a white board and some desks. Is this a practical skill that the masses can pay their bills with? Hardly. But our country isn't known for making wise, rational or practical decisions any longer.
And lets face it... College is a great place to stuff some of the unnecessary workforce. There aren't enough jobs, remember? Much better that we keep the masses busy learning about that poetry instead of masses of people coming to the conclusion that our country is in big trouble. At least these students have hope. Unemployment would be considered much higher if millions weren't attempting to train/retrain for jobs that don't require additional workers. At that point, the masses would be much less optimistic than they already are today.
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Originally Posted by John23
-I don't think my generation has had much of a choice. Being 18 or 21 now and going into the world, its like going into a store and 70% of the merchandise is faulty. i.e. Liberal Arts degrees, for profits, overpriced bachelors, tier 2 and 3 law, etc. Overcharged and it takes too long for what you really end up with.
Sure you do. The choices just suck, that's all. I went to college for awhile. Lame. I realized those college grad jobs are mostly dull and boring. Sure, many of them pay well. Many of them pay well even though they aren't that hard to do. College degrees are nothing more than a union card these days that grant you access to bid on these jobs. Only problem is these jobs aren't magically created because more people have degrees. What does happen is jobs that never did, and never should require a degree now require them. The jobs did not get more challenging. The companies realized the college degree requirement filters out the bottom half of our generation, giving them more bang for their buck.
You do have a choice in the matter though. You can spend four years (more like 5 for most) earning your union card so you can compete for the limited number of college graduate level jobs, or you can get an entry level job that will teach some form of skill. Either way, you're investing your time. 4 years starting at $10/hr in some trade, or thousands of dollars you don't even have to get a piece of paper that may or may not get you a decent job. I took what I considered the safer bet, because a skill is something that can always be traded for money. I may not get rich, but as long as people still have a need for my skill set, I can always earn something better than a retail wage. What skill does a lib art grad have? They're cultured? In that case, they would make excellent retail clerks if they can't find an entry level job requiring a college degree. If the trend continues though, that minimum wage retail job may soon require a college degree. That's the downside to going all in on a college degree. You owe the same bill whether you get that great job or not, and I imagine life sucks pretty hard if you're paying back a student loan on $8/hr.
But really... How are the boomers collectively responsible for any of this? A select few drafted the blueprint for the stagnation of our nation. The rest did their part by approving the plan for the construction phase. And here we are today...
Companies realized they could reduce training costs by requiring a college degree for damn near anything. Make the kid pay for his own training instead of company paid training. The jobs aren't any more advanced. In many cases, technology is making these jobs easier, and the worker more productive/efficient. Companies just expect you to foot the bill to get your foot in the door now..
Companies should expect an employee to obtain their own training. Expecting corps to pay for something that is mobile with the employee is analigious to an entitlement mentality.
Besides, to quote an ex boss who was spot on, "If you deem yourself unworthy of an investment, why should I consider investing in you"?
Amazing.folks will not think twice of spending 20-35k on a car which is only going to last a tiny percentage of their life, but ask them to invest the same $ into education which will last for a lifetime and they whine.
Companies should expect an employee to obtain their own training. Expecting corps to pay for something that is mobile with the employee is analigious to an entitlement mentality.
Besides, to quote an ex boss who was spot on, "If you deem yourself unworthy of an investment, why should I consider investing in you"?
Amazing.folks will not think twice of spending 20-35k on a car which is only going to last a tiny percentage of their life, but ask them to invest the same $ into education which will last for a lifetime and they whine.
Depends how you look at it. Looking at the numbers the poster put up, we clearly don't have anywhere near enough jobs available that legitimately require a college degree to absorb the swelling ranks of college students, let alone grads. At what point does "investing" turn into mere betting? If many of these grads are graduating with debt that equates to a new car, wouldn't the retail clerk have been better off financing the new car in the first place? Wouldn't our economy be better off with the natural stimulus, as well as the jobs required to manufacture the vehicle? Wouldn't the retail clerk be better off investing in something that will get them to work, instead of something of no direct use or value in their current profession?
Of course you will argue, their degree could allow them to advance to a better position within the store or retail sector. Considering that they're competing with many other desperate graduates working retail, yes, that degree may be the ticket out of a job in front of a cash register. That is not because their degree really gave them any unique skillset required to advance to a better paying position. It is because the college degree is a mere union card. You need it to get a better job. Why? Nobody seems to know, all they know is you need it today. The real answer though is because your competition has one. In that case, they all would have been better off buying new cars then too. Let the top 10-15% get the degrees, which is all the economy requires, the way it was before bubbles became the main driver of our economy.
By the way, who are these people you speak of? You know, those folks who will "not think twice of spending 20-35k on a car which is only going to last a tiny percentage of their life"? I personally bought mine in cash with the money I saved up working during HS. You know, doing one of those jobs that didn't require a college degree. Sure didn't cost that much though. As for a tiny percentage... It's lasted me 10 years so far. Runs beautifully. Never required a repair, the maintenance is cheap and all of which is done by me for free. It's probably got another 5 years before I'll sell. I would buy another new, or perhaps late model pre owned in a heartbeat. Why? Because with the money I have saved not racking up student loan bills, I can afford to. With the money I have saved and invested, I have grow my net worth beyond that of just what my job pays.
There is value in taking the path of least resistance. When the employers legitimately need more workers, they will pay to train them on the job. Unless I'm planning to be a high paid doctor, lawyer, etc, why should I pay to prove I am good enough to do your work? Sorry, that reeks just as much of entitlement. Seems I would be better off taking you out of the equation and competing against you for the work. Next, you're going to suggest I should pay YOU for the privilege to do your work. Regardless, you can certainly understand why some suggest the boomers had it easier in the employment realm, which was the topic being debated.
By the way, who are these people you speak of? You know, those folks who will "not think twice of spending 20-35k on a car which is only going to last a tiny percentage of their life"?.
The US is selling 15 million new vehicles annually domestically. 20k will be on the low side of the cost curve. The average time a new car is held before buying another is under 5 years, per industry articles I have read.
That means the ratio of new cars bought to workers is around 1 in 11.
If many of these grads are graduating with debt that equates to a new car, wouldn't the retail clerk have been better off financing the new car in the first place? .
Surely, you jest.
I have a sibling in retail as a cashier 8 years now. Makes $15k per year pre-tax. Unlike peers, she gets alimony which sustains her somewhat.
But the other cashiers, lets see 15k pre-tax less $1k FICA, $2k Health Insurance employee portion, we're down to 1k net per month.
Lets do a basic budget: Rent (with 2 rommmates) $300 Utilities $100 (after its split) Car Insurance $100 Gas $100 Personal products (shampoo, soap,etc) $25 Phone/Cable $80
That leaves a whopping $495 per MONTH for food, clothes as needed, car repairs as needed, doctor /prescription co-pays, etc.
Who would lend them money for a new car? where is the money in the budget to pay even $200 a month?
I have a sibling in retail as a cashier 8 years now. Makes $15k per year pre-tax. Unlike peers, she gets alimony which sustains her somewhat.
But the other cashiers, lets see 15k pre-tax less $1k FICA, $2k Health Insurance employee portion, we're down to 1k net per month.
Lets do a basic budget: Rent (with 2 rommmates) $300 Utilities $100 (after its split) Car Insurance $100 Gas $100 Personal products (shampoo, soap,etc) $25 Phone/Cable $80
That leaves a whopping $495 per MONTH for food, clothes as needed, car repairs as needed, doctor /prescription co-pays, etc.
Who would lend them money for a new car? where is the money in the budget to pay even $200 a month?
Then where is the money for the college degree? The point made was, we already have too many college graduates relative to the jobs requiring them. What is the point in someone getting a college degree if they are going to end up working retail? You called this an "investment". I suggested that with the odds presented, this actually resembles something more along the lines of a bet. Tomato, toma-toe...
While the financed car would not be a good "investment", the retail worker at least has something that can satisfy a need that the college degree cannot... It can provide transportation to, and from their place of employment. Since the financed car is hypothetical, it's irrelevant whom the lending party would be.
It's time we face reality. Adding more college graduates only saturates the supply. It does little, if anything to influence the number of college graduate level jobs. More than anything, it dilutes the value. Employers can then start requiring a college degree for just about any job they like. And if that isn't enough, many companies will avoid training them by introducing more H1b visas. And if that isn't enough, companies can outsource more jobs than ever, including some white collar and highly technical jobs. Oh yes, and the point you're always making... Technology is killing many jobs in the office and technical side!
Which goes back to the point... One can understand why young people are frustrated with the employment situation in this country. They're told to get the degree to get ahead. Some do. Others end up working the same HS level job for the same pay, all while paying off a student loan. Many exceed 24K.
Companies should expect an employee to obtain their own training. Expecting corps to pay for something that is mobile with the employee is analigious to an entitlement mentality.
Besides, to quote an ex boss who was spot on, "If you deem yourself unworthy of an investment, why should I consider investing in you"?
Amazing.folks will not think twice of spending 20-35k on a car which is only going to last a tiny percentage of their life, but ask them to invest the same $ into education which will last for a lifetime and they whine.
That speaks volumes and is spot on.
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