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Old 11-14-2008, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Texas
989 posts, read 2,318,136 times
Reputation: 697

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The President warned against the danger of overregulation and offered an excellent address certainly worth reading:

President Bush Discusses Financial Markets and World Economy
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:39 AM
 
5,338 posts, read 8,869,999 times
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It's a terrible address. It's amazing he was able to keep a straight face. He claimed that the problem with the market is too much government involvement. This coming from the administration that bailouts their corporate masters with your tax money. This coming from the government that banned short-selling to help their corporate friends. The list of government involvement goes on and on. The guy is a joke.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:13 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
8,061 posts, read 11,845,298 times
Reputation: 8029
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
It's a terrible address. It's amazing he was able to keep a straight face. He claimed that the problem with the market is too much government involvement. This coming from the administration that bailouts their corporate masters with your tax money. This coming from the government that banned short-selling to help their corporate friends. The list of government involvement goes on and on. The guy is a joke.
It's not clear which side your criticism is on.

The root problem is US ruling class social policy - free, inefficient housing for deadbeats - and the government's manipulation of the banking system and the money market to implement it.

Now that the policy has proven to be a disaster for the economy of the productive and prudent, the US ruling class has artfully blamed it on the free market.

At this point, no one in the US ruling class has any credibility.

Discern and see where this is going.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 54,255,095 times
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Bush, and most of his advisors, would run away from a free market if they ever stumbled on one. They want their bets to win without any risk or at least have some deep pockets to bail them out. It was Saudi "investor" money in the case of Bush's oil company(s).

Our financial problems are not derived form the mortgage policies of the Fannie & Freddy insurers but from letting investment capital speculate in the housing market. This vast influx of unregulated (everyone must have a mortgage) capital led to the bubble in prices and the eventual collapse. Don’t look to poor people getting their first house (most are still making payments) but on the yuppies that speculated by getting houses they could not afford or several houses they could not afford.

The bailout went to the wrong people. This money should have gone to refinance usurious or variable rate mortgages to individual home owners and not to the Wall Street and Main Street speculators.

The big investors, just like the tourist in Vegas, must face the consequences of betting more than they could afford to lose. That consequence is personal or corporate bankruptcy.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:25 AM
 
19,699 posts, read 59,595,835 times
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Bush is one of the LAST people to ask how the economy works. As said above, the man is a fool, to the point that it isn't even an ad hom attack, but a logical statement of fact.

The is a sword that will cut the Gordian Knot. The government could simple declare all credit default swaps unsecured by actual stock of the same amount, illegal and unenforceable - retroactively. It then could immediately nationalize the banks and AIG and remove the top two levels of management without recourse, and send them to China for retraining. The market would be stunned into submission.

The U.S. does not, and never has had, a "free market economy." A true free market economy inevitably ends up with a single winner to the game, partly based on that person's skill and partly on their luck. Ultimately, that turns into a dictatorship and/or fascism. The game Monopoly is a free market economy.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 24,719,033 times
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I would like to see the free market concept actually put into practice. We have not had a "free market" in my lifetime.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 3,058,164 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallrick View Post
I would like to see the free market concept actually put into practice. We have not had a "free market" in my lifetime.
As long as there is a government that can dictate the rules of the game (law)... there can not be a truly "free" market.

And like chikpea said, monopoly is a very good example of free markets with ultimately a single player taking over the world.

The closest thing we've ever had with free markets were the days when the likes of US Steel, Standard Oil, Rockefeller, et. al ruled the land.

-chuck22b
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,805 posts, read 17,572,960 times
Reputation: 9435
bale002 wrote:
At this point, no one in the US ruling class has any credibility.
They may lack credibility, but they do have most of the money ( our money that it is )!



chuckb22b wrote:
As long as there is a government that can dictate the rules of the game (law)... there can not be a truly "free" market.
I just don't understand why a FREE market is so widely regarded as the holy grail?????????? Even with some benevolent regulations in place, it has proven again and again to benefit just a few at the expense of the many.


GregW wrote:
The big investors, just like the tourist in Vegas, must face the consequences of betting more than they could afford to lose. That consequence is personal or corporate bankruptcy.
The politicians have done one-heckuva-of-a-job convincing we-the-suckers that the economy of our very country depends on saving the big investors from their own greed and stupidity.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 11-14-2008 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 3,058,164 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
bale002 wrote:
At this point, no one in the US ruling class has any credibility.
They may lack credibility, but they do have most of the money ( our money that it is )!



chuckb22b wrote:
As long as there is a government that can dictate the rules of the game (law)... there can not be a truly "free" market.
I just don't understand why a FREE market is so widely regarded as the holy grail?????????? It has proven again and again to benefit just a few at the expense of the many.
I agree CosmicWizard,
I was just pointing out that a true "free market" is not possible in America... and that the end result of a free market is a few ruling the majority.

-chuck22b
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Texas
989 posts, read 2,318,136 times
Reputation: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
I agree CosmicWizard,
I was just pointing out that a true "free market" is not possible in America... and that the end result of a free market is a few ruling the majority.

-chuck22b
Yeah, because where free markets do not exist (North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, etc) you never see a few ruling the majority. Conversely, where free markets do exist in some form (USA, Britain), the people never get to elect their leaders based on majority vote. I wish I could live in an open and free society like Cuba.
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