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Old 12-12-2008, 04:13 PM
 
13,138 posts, read 19,290,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Why is this? Is their some magical reason why the US auto companies can't restructure and become viable?
I thought I made that clear. The magical reason is unions - which have enormous political power and lots of labor influence in Detroit. They have to bust them. Sure the UAW made some concessions, but nothing nearing what they need to do.
I think Chapter 11 bankruptcy will force the unions to negotiate. A blank check from the U.S. government will not.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:39 PM
 
460 posts, read 1,042,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
The amount of resistance to help working Americans is amazing....it says a lot about where this country has gone.
What I haven't heard is how do people feel it's all somehow the UAW's fault WHEN these companies entered into these contracts knowingly, and they should have had enough financial savvy 30 years ago to determine if they would be able to pay for the retirements they agreed on. These people put in all those years to the company (their part of the deal) looking forward to their retirement (company's part of the deal).
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:41 PM
 
48,509 posts, read 86,254,134 times
Reputation: 18106
No one had to do anyhtign to destroy the big htree they did t themselves. They had a warni g in the 70's and have done nothing since. They live and died by SUV. The unions is teh reason for no bail;out as they refused to do their part. It was their choice. But they will probably get the last 15 billion front eh 700 billion bailouyt. Taht fine because they don't look like tehy will get more without a vote. Bail;out fo crooks and bad companies is the name of the game it seems.
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Old 12-12-2008, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 74,832,001 times
Reputation: 27602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Why is this? Is their some magical reason why the US auto companies can't restructure and become viable?
The Big 3 have been to Washington twice now with their hands out and neither time did they produce a restructuring plan as you propose.

Do a bailout on plans, not dreams or hopes.
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,561,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
I thought I made that clear. The magical reason is unions - which have enormous political power and lots of labor influence in Detroit. They have to bust them.
This isn't a magic reason, this is your ideology. You believe they will collapse regardless, you don't know this though. Big difference....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The Big 3 have been to Washington twice now with their hands out and neither time did they produce a restructuring plan as you propose.
How ideology clots reality....they've all been in the process of restructuring....

FOXNews.com - GM Restructuring Units to Cut Costs - Business And Money | Business News | Financial News
GM to follow Ford and restructure its restructuring - Autoblog
http://www.autonews.com/article/2008...299736460/1205

The US autos aren't failing because their business they are failing because they weren't able to restructure fast enough given two major shocks in the system.
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,474 posts, read 14,180,704 times
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Cerberus has decided not to inject capital into Chrysler. Cerberus knows what's up.

Lawmakers Press Cerberus on Aid - WSJ.com
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Old 12-12-2008, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 74,832,001 times
Reputation: 27602
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Ford View Post
Cerberus has decided not to inject capital into Chrysler. Cerberus knows what's up.

Lawmakers Press Cerberus on Aid - WSJ.com
Interesting article. So Chrysler got a $7 billion loan from Cerberus last year in addition to any money from the first government loan to them.

And they are no better off today though.
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,343,183 times
Reputation: 1295
My wife and I believe we have already helped the auto industry. We both purchased American cars. My wife purchased a 2007 Chevrolet Malibu and me a 2007 Ford Explorer 4x4. They are both great vehicles. I just don't want Congress to bail out the big three. Let them go through bankruptcy and restructure.
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,670 posts, read 5,380,330 times
Reputation: 4083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
How much you get paid is about supply and demand, not how much formal education you have.

Also, pay is related to the desirability of the job.
It's also (and in some cases I'd argue primarily) based on the amount of pain you and your co-workers can inflict by refusing to work.

Also I'm just about fed up with the effort to make those who work in an office rather than a factory, use their minds rather than their hands, and have six or eight years of college and grad school rather than a GED and a year of trade school, feel like total worthless pieces of $hit because we don't "make" things.
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,561,515 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
Also I'm just about fed up with the effort to make those who work in an office rather than a factory, use their minds rather than their hands, and have six or eight years of college and grad school rather than a GED and a year of trade school, feel like total worthless pieces of $hit because we don't "make" things.
Yeah this is more of the "I have a fancy degree so I should get paid a lot" mentality.

When I go into an office, I see a lot of paper pushers. I really don't know what they do, I ask and still don't really get it. Does it take that many people to do that? When I go into a factory, a development studio etc....I understand what is going on. Everyone seems to be productive... Just saying...
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