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Old 12-13-2008, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,429 posts, read 5,803,226 times
Reputation: 1708

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Greed + Stupidity + Irrationality = Sheople

And..............300 million sheople (actually 299,999,990 sheople. I figure about 10 people were bright enough not to get caught up in the RE boom) x loose lending practices X over inflated real estate x helocs x Pi = economic collapse
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,308 posts, read 35,220,010 times
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This has been coming for a long time. American power was built on it's capacity for production. We were able to build better for cheaper and faster than any other nation and our natural resources allowed us to be self sufficient. It is the reason America was the determining factor behind two world wars and why we became the sole superpower for the last 20 years of the twentieth century.

Production has been completely abandoned. This is a consumer nation and our economy is entirely based on services provided to consumers. The prevailing attitude has been to get rich quick at whatever the cost and that it is possible to borrow our way into prosperity. This is the reason America is now "the first among equals" and why we would never win a shooting war with the Chinese.

Perhaps this is the coming of a new world order, or perhaps this will mark a return of the American industrial machine. In the long run this will probably prove to be the best thing that could have happened to this nation.
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Rockland County New York
2,984 posts, read 5,335,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
This has been coming for a long time. American power was built on it's capacity for production. We were able to build better for cheaper and faster than any other nation and our natural resources allowed us to be self sufficient. It is the reason America was the determining factor behind two world wars and why we became the sole superpower for the last 20 years of the twentieth century.

Production has been completely abandoned. This is a consumer nation and our economy is entirely based on services provided to consumers. The prevailing attitude has been to get rich quick at whatever the cost and that it is possible to borrow our way into prosperity. This is the reason America is now "the first among equals" and why we would never win a shooting war with the Chinese.

Perhaps this is the coming of a new world order, or perhaps this will mark a return of the American industrial machine. In the long run this will probably prove to be the best thing that could have happened to this nation.

Yes if, if the government does away with NAFTA and other free trade agreements with China and India but I really doubt it. Our government is owned by big business and they are now investing their money in India and China. The Age of Wall Street it over. I don't think economics policy is like reading the future. Common sense dictates that with no decent paying jobs, available credit and eroding tax payments to the federal government, the dollar won't be worth the price of the cloth it is printed on. Perhaps the Chinese and Indians will retrain the American public so we might be able to make our own clothes, electronics, household goods and everything else we used to make. The next depression will be worse. At least back in 1933 we had American know how. Today we are button pushers and retail sales clerks.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:39 PM
 
1,532 posts, read 1,457,835 times
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I believe the bankers want to cause a finical collaspe but not a social one, before if the US got into trouble we would borrow the money from the mideast countries. When oil went to $ 150 a barrel the mideast countries started building islands and buildings and went 4 trillion dollars into debt.

Now with 7 union people retired to every one worker, baby boomers, and social security, welfare, and medicare coming up the US cannot afford it. With the treasuries being spent by the bailouts to the banks, our credit being used to the max what is left but complete finicial collaspe now can it be stopped before we have an social collaspe is the question. Hopefully the US will still exist in the future, all this is from reading other forums and just putting it together.
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:56 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 4,753,358 times
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i disagree with fact check on this one. every problem has a root and this one is no different. i believe you have to ask yourself why banks loaned out stupid amounts of money to deadbeats? were banks given implied guarantees? was there govt regulation in place forcing banks to lend? did the govt encourage reckless behaviour?

politicians love booms. everyone is employed, quality of life is enhanced and they get to take their place in the history books. there are ways for to stimulate the economy through monetary policy, fiscal stimulus (ie govt spends money and therefore creates employment directly), easing of taxes which gives you more money to spend and through regulation and/or deregulation. i'm not a big fan of government involvement when it has the cash to spare but it's not the end of the world.
what i am vehemently opposed to is the government spending money it doesn't have. borrowing from other countries, monetizing debt, deficit spending, using social security to fund non related expenditure etc is incredibly irresponsible and puts our children on the hook for our extravagances.

the government has made it possible for us to live beyond our means and it's not fair that our kids will end up paying for it
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:01 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
7,393 posts, read 11,213,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy
This has been coming for a long time. American power was built on its capacity for production. We were able to build better for cheaper and faster than any other nation and our natural resources allowed us to be self sufficient. It is the reason America was the determining factor behind two world wars and why we became the sole superpower for the last 20 years of the twentieth century.

Quote:
Stac2007
Perhaps the Chinese and Indians will retrain the American public so we might be able to make our own clothes, electronics, household goods and everything else we used to make.
Quote:
SilverOne
Now with 7 union people retired to every one worker, baby boomers, and social security, welfare, and medicare coming up the US cannot afford it. With the treasuries being spent by the bailouts to the banks, our credit being used to the max what is left but complete financial collapse now can it be stopped before we have a social collapse is the question.
These last three posts come to the core of the issue, though with one or two exaggerations. The US has not completely abandoned production, and 7 retirees to 1 worker sounds too much right now, I believe it is more like 1 to 1, though more than unity may be the projection for the next 30 years.

At any rate, in economic mathematical terms, the problem is that the US domestic economy is out of balance with the following equation

production - consumption = saving + investment

I am not sure about complete financial and social collapse, but almost certain is that the US social make-up in the next 30 years will be significantly different than that of the "golden age" middle class of the 1950s-1990s period and the average population of the entire world will subsist at a material standard of living which will be lower - for better and for worse - than what the "golden age" middle class has enjoyed, based on production during the golden years, based on credit over these past ten or so.

To put it another way: over the next 30 years or so, the average US resident, whose faces will not be the same as those of today, will no longer have this haughty attitude of "entitlement" like the one that has prevailed over these past 10 or so.

Last edited by bale002; 12-14-2008 at 05:12 AM..
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Backwoods of Maine
7,250 posts, read 8,563,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
And it makes me mad, b/c these games they played in order to make money out of nothing cost the rest of us.
You have inadvertently brought it to light!

We all grew up using Federal Reserve Notes, all called them "dollars". They are NOT dollars. They are just paper fiat notes backed by nothing, "money made out of nothing", as you said. But because we have known nothing else during our lives, we tend to think this situation will last all our lives, or "forever". It won't.

Federal Reserve Notes are a "game being played" by the bankers, to enrich themselves. And yes, they do "cost the rest of us". In order to come into being, each Fed Reserve Note must be BORROWED. This is what is meant by the term, "debt money".

The bankers (the "Fed") get fabulously wealthy from all this. If we don't borrow, they don't make money. So they encourage us to borrow as much as possible. This cannot go on; the mathematics of it don't work out. It is coming to an end. Not tomorrow, not next week, or even next year. But it will happen. And we will all suffer until it does.

Every other experiment in history with paper money has ended in failure. This one will be no different.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:51 AM
 
6,749 posts, read 9,398,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverOne View Post

Now with 7 union people retired to every one worker, baby boomers, and social security, welfare, and medicare coming up the US cannot afford it. With the treasuries being spent by the bailouts to the banks...
This is why I predict that Barack will actually move towards the right on issues of healthcare,poverty and pension solutions. These issues will require solutions that aren't overly dependent on tax dollars. Even without this current financial crisis the future of medicare and social security funding were already big issues.
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
5,615 posts, read 13,142,624 times
Reputation: 2539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
This is why I predict that Barack will actually move towards the right on issues of healthcare,poverty and pension solutions. These issues will require solutions that aren't overly dependent on tax dollars. Even without this current financial crisis the future of medicare and social security funding were already big issues.
Either that, or it's time to fire up the printing press again. I'm really curious as to what 2009 will bring with regards to campaign promises on health care.

Social security... I hate getting that statement at the end of every year that says how much was taken to go into it. As someone in their 20s I really don't believe I'll see anything of it. I think it'll either be a reduced amount or seized altogether at some point before I retire. Wish I could've kept the cash to pay down some of the principal on my house (I bought in a part of the country with no housing boom, traditional financing means before anyone goes there).
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:23 PM
 
930 posts, read 2,210,484 times
Reputation: 1000
Kendra Todd on HGTVs My House is Worth What?? Caused it.

Quote from her "I've seen a lot of people make a lot of money on their house by making smart upgrades". Nice Kendra. Now get rid of the realtor/cheerleader that says "I would put your house on the market for a bazzillion dollars$$ !!!!" and put an actual 2008 buyer on there who says what the house is REALLY worth.

And suddenly we will find out that the stupid upgrades you financed with your home equity loan didnt mean diddly squat. And you are morons are underwater 100 grand on your 2005 loan.
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