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Thread summary:

Federal reserve cutting rates to historic lows, economy not good for savers, rate cuts cause savings account to go down, cost of living higher than interest rate on savings account

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Old 03-08-2009, 10:17 PM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,301,046 times
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To make people aware is by creating a video, pamplets, an article that easily explains it to people. It would need to be in plain english, pictures, graphs, and backed by hard data that people can easily look up to verify it. That would be a start. It's hard to find information as to what the Fed does, why it's corrupt and faulty.

It is discussed on here but it's still a little hard to understand.
The Fed themselves puts out a publication called "Modern Money Mechanics: A Workbook on Bank Reserves and Deposit Expansion" (http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/research/economy/modern_money_mechanics.pdf (broken link)) that details exactly the process of fractional reserves. I mean, the entire point of the publication is mentioned in the name! If you pick up an economics book, it'll detail it for you perfectly. It's not that the data isn't out there, it's that folks are too stupid/lazy/unwilling/blissful to learn.

I don't know how it took people long to realize this. We learned about this in high school economics class as well as college. Then again, when I was in high school, nobody really wanted to learn (too concerned with their fancy cars and such). Perhaps if they learned how those loans affected us in the long run instead of taking them out on stupid ****, they'd know why we're in this mess and see the voodoo behind it all!
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,193 posts, read 4,618,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runningncircles1 View Post
The Fed themselves puts out a publication called "Modern Money Mechanics: A Workbook on Bank Reserves and Deposit Expansion" (http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/research/economy/modern_money_mechanics.pdf (broken link)) that details exactly the process of fractional reserves. I mean, the entire point of the publication is mentioned in the name! If you pick up an economics book, it'll detail it for you perfectly. It's not that the data isn't out there, it's that folks are too stupid/lazy/unwilling/blissful to learn.

I don't know how it took people long to realize this. We learned about this in high school economics class as well as college. Then again, when I was in high school, nobody really wanted to learn (too concerned with their fancy cars and such). Perhaps if they learned how those loans affected us in the long run instead of taking them out on stupid ****, they'd know why we're in this mess and see the voodoo behind it all!
I think many just don't think about it for some reason. I hadn't for awhile until this collapse unfolded, that's when I became much more interested and started questioning things.

I know I didn't learn about money creation in high school or college economics. My HS econ class was a half semester class senior year and that was it. From what I remember, we just learned about supply and demand. And the extent of what I learned about the Fed was I had to memorize there were 12 banks and some board members. I also remeber my teacher not knowing much about it either, so that wasn't helpful.

I ordered a few publications recently from the Fed (their comic books). The one about the Federal Reserve is a pretty complicated and takes time to understand. (I was a little surprised at the complexity considering it was a comic book lol).

It would be helpful if they put out more diagrams and pictures of the flow. (Personally I'm just more visual). I see in the link you provided there are accounting flows which should be helpful.

I went to the bookstore today. I looked at some econ books. I was trying to figure out the Fed's Open Market Operations as I still don't quite get it.

It basically said the Fed buys securities and then sends checks to the banks, then the banks take the money and give it back to the Fed and put it in their bank account, then the Fed gives the bank's a credit.
It didn't delve into why they do that. The bookstore didnt have many books anyway, so I'll have to look for something online.

Anyway, maybe this publication will give more insight. Thanks for the link.
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:20 PM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,301,046 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
I think many just don't think about it for some reason. I hadn't for awhile until this collapse unfolded, that's when I became much more interested and started questioning things.

I know I didn't learn about money creation in high school or college economics. My HS econ class was a half semester class senior year and that was it. From what I remember, we just learned about supply and demand. And the extent of what I learned about the Fed was I had to memorize there were 12 banks and some board members. I also remeber my teacher not knowing much about it either, so that wasn't helpful.

I ordered a few publications recently from the Fed (their comic books). The one about the Federal Reserve is a pretty complicated and takes time to understand. (I was a little surprised at the complexity considering it was a comic book lol).

It would be helpful if they put out more diagrams and pictures of the flow. (Personally I'm just more visual). I see in the link you provided there are accounting flows which should be helpful.

I went to the bookstore today. I looked at some econ books. I was trying to figure out the Fed's Open Market Operations as I still don't quite get it.

It basically said the Fed buys securities and then sends checks to the banks, then the banks take the money and give it back to the Fed and put it in their bank account, then the Fed gives the bank's a credit.
It didn't delve into why they do that. The bookstore didnt have many books anyway, so I'll have to look for something online.

Anyway, maybe this publication will give more insight. Thanks for the link.
Ahh. Well, I was in AP micro and macroecon, so that might have something to do with it. Lasted for the whole year. I guess I was blessed with good econ teachers? But, you are right about econ texts being hard to understand. Most economists have horrible style/grammar, plus some of the language they use isn't common. I'm an engineer and sometimes I have to read a sentence twice. Or thrice. I remember learning about FR banking and shook my head in awe, wondering if I had learned right... that private banks created money. Went to my teach after class and she taught me more about it (many of the kids hated econ... big surprise ). The way it is taught is rather dry; perhaps if they taught it the same way they do history or lit (sex, drugs, control, and violence) people would find it interesting. And, that's why people don't make the connection of bankers being able to be bad. They're seen as boring little people who crunch numbers all day, when in reality they can control an entire nation's destiny and can make a country look subservient (just like the US nailed the final nail in the coffin of UK imperialism in Suez Crisis). Right now, people are bored by it.
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:56 PM
 
18,353 posts, read 16,333,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runningncircles1 View Post
Ahh. Well, I was in AP micro and macroecon, so that might have something to do with it. Lasted for the whole year. I guess I was blessed with good econ teachers? But, you are right about econ texts being hard to understand. Most economists have horrible style/grammar, plus some of the language they use isn't common. I'm an engineer and sometimes I have to read a sentence twice. Or thrice. I remember learning about FR banking and shook my head in awe, wondering if I had learned right... that private banks created money. Went to my teach after class and she taught me more about it (many of the kids hated econ... big surprise ). The way it is taught is rather dry; perhaps if they taught it the same way they do history or lit (sex, drugs, control, and violence) people would find it interesting. And, that's why people don't make the connection of bankers being able to be bad. They're seen as boring little people who crunch numbers all day, when in reality they can control an entire nation's destiny and can make a country look subservient (just like the US nailed the final nail in the coffin of UK imperialism in Suez Crisis). Right now, people are bored by it.
Hi runningncircles1,

In the econ courses I had it was basically theory assuming free markets. The monetary system was described as a Keynesian model. I also picked up discarded text books and got one on world trade and finance that described the classical Adam Smith and Ricardo models and then to neo classical micro etc.

The problem is they looked at ideal markets and only looked at idealized theories instead of the entirety of what was said. No real history is taught in economics. If you actually read Adam Smith and "wealth of nations" you will see the reality of it where capital and labor will scheme to thwart it. 7 year apprenticeships in England were simply to idle new workers to restrict the supply of labor for example. It is much more of a history and reality of what was. The text books just tend to take the idealized theories but not what must be done to enforce them.


What is really disturbing is to read the 18th and 19th century accounts about banking , of which I trust more than 21st century CNBC infomercials, that we were heading into an abyss.

Now going back over the banking system without the bias of assumed trust in the system it really pokes out at you. It is a bit of a chess game. Pin the knight to the queen and then we have the illusion that the knight can move, unless the opposing king moves in such a spot that the knight can offer check, and then its the pin that is the illusion. Modern banking uses powerful illusions in logic.
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:30 AM
 
105 posts, read 201,300 times
Reputation: 33
US, Germany, France, UK face junk debt status
By Päivi Munter in London
Published: March 20 2005 21:35 | Last updated: March 20 2005 21:35
FT.com / UK - US, Germany, France, UK face junk debt status

Monetary flat spin
The Market Ticker
Karl Denninger
Uh Oh..... Monetary Flat Spin - The Market Ticker (http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/703-Uh-Oh.....-Monetary-Flat-Spin.html - broken link)
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:00 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,301,046 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Hi runningncircles1,

In the econ courses I had it was basically theory assuming free markets. The monetary system was described as a Keynesian model. I also picked up discarded text books and got one on world trade and finance that described the classical Adam Smith and Ricardo models and then to neo classical micro etc.

The problem is they looked at ideal markets and only looked at idealized theories instead of the entirety of what was said. No real history is taught in economics. If you actually read Adam Smith and "wealth of nations" you will see the reality of it where capital and labor will scheme to thwart it. 7 year apprenticeships in England were simply to idle new workers to restrict the supply of labor for example. It is much more of a history and reality of what was. The text books just tend to take the idealized theories but not what must be done to enforce them.


What is really disturbing is to read the 18th and 19th century accounts about banking , of which I trust more than 21st century CNBC infomercials, that we were heading into an abyss.

Now going back over the banking system without the bias of assumed trust in the system it really pokes out at you. It is a bit of a chess game. Pin the knight to the queen and then we have the illusion that the knight can move, unless the opposing king moves in such a spot that the knight can offer check, and then its the pin that is the illusion. Modern banking uses powerful illusions in logic.
You're definitely right about the "ideal market" situation in textbooks. That's why I loved the econ teachers that I've had... one quote that comes to mind from one of them: "Books like Adam Smith's and even your text are true to a point. They work with ideal markets and assume humans will act rationally. However, there will be many times in the future and have been in the past where the entire system goes apesh*t due to human irrationality..." and goes on about the federal reserve and such. He also went on about how going gold won't solve inflation because we still have Fraction Reserves. He went over the pluses and minuses of fractional and full reserve. All my econ profs have been fairly intelligent so far (or THUS far... one of them joked about economists using that favorite word all the time).
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