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Old 12-19-2008, 08:08 PM
 
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Whoes school of economics will best help the U.S economy?

Quote:
The notion that the federal government can manage business cycles should have died with the stagflation of the 1970s. But it has returned, with a vengeance...

Obama's economic plan may do more harm than good
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:10 PM
 
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Did Keynesian economics cause the 1970's stagflation or was it more that it didn't have an answer for it when it happened?
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:03 PM
 
18,353 posts, read 16,315,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Whoes school of economics will best help the U.S economy?
Hi Motion,

This is as far as one needs to go to see it get it wrong.
In the first place, the federal government has no money.

If government has no money where do they get it from? Debt is money and they can create lots of it.

n the modern era, the federal government deficit-spends in good and bad times. So, to fund an economic stimulus, it has to borrow the money.

The government does not have to borrow money. Debt is the money. If someone buys me a cup of coffee on an IOU and everyone trusted me to pay, it could be passed a money, debt money to be precise. That's the basis for dollars. It used to be gold could back a dollar as well as treasures but that ended in the 30s. Because most people don't know dollars are debt instruments is the reason many people haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about. They my as well be reading out of a Harry Potter book.


All they need to do is some of the infrastructure projects we actually need and then just suspend the income tax. Problem solved. They will not do this because people will pay off debt and that will cut into the banks who profit by our credit and they do indeed run the country.


The best major economic school is the Austrian.
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:18 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
7,456 posts, read 11,242,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post

All they need to do is some of the infrastructure projects we actually need and then just suspend the income tax. Problem solved. They will not do this because people will pay off debt and that will cut into the banks who profit by our credit and they do indeed run the country.

The best major economic school is the Austrian.
Great post, gwynedd1.

I expect the implementation of infrastructure projects, though what disturbs me right now is the same old orientation towards 20th-century style roads and bridges, implying no serious effort to change the transport paradigm based on the internal combustion engine and private cars. I hope that I am proved wrong.

Though a comprehensive simplification of the tax system would be nice, the overall tax burden in the US is actually relatively light in comparison to most other countries of early industrialization, and I expect no significant change in taxation policy at least from the first year of the new Congress.
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Old 12-20-2008, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
4,429 posts, read 5,809,671 times
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
If someone buys me a cup of coffee on an IOU and everyone trusted me to pay, it could be passed a money, debt money to be precise. That's the basis for dollars.
My question to everyone out there is.......How many cups of coffee do we get to IOU on before there are issues of trust? Because we all know that we aren't asking for an IOU for just ONE cup.

Quote:
Because most people don't know dollars are debt instruments is the reason many people haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about. They my as well be reading out of a Harry Potter book.
Harry Potter? No. If I'm going to read fantasy it just pick up 2005 copies of the NAIR (National Association of Realtors) reports.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
I expect the implementation of infrastructure projects, though what disturbs me right now is the same old orientation toward 20Th-century style roads and bridges, implying no serious effort to change the transport paradigm based on the internal combustion engine and private cars. I hope that I am proved wrong.
I agree with both of you on the infrastructure and agree with you bale on the need to dump the internal combustion engine. But I do disagree with you on the on the issue of private cars. I just don't see Mass transit working all that well outside of the major cities. There will always be a need for our nation to have the majority of our transportation needs met by private vehicle's. But the difference will be that we will use battery/electric powered cars instead of fossil fuel dinosaurs. Of course as you said we need a new infrastructure to handle the 21st centuries need and demands. This would include the making the new infrastructure electric friendly.

Last edited by baystater; 12-20-2008 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:35 PM
 
18,353 posts, read 16,315,244 times
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[quote=baystater;6641994]
Quote:

My question to everyone out there is.......How many cups of coffee do we get to IOU on before there are issues of trust? Because we all know that we aren't asking for an IOU for just ONE cup.
Hi baystater,

When will we start asking about the 45 trillion created by banks? That has diluted the value of our dollar more than anything and it gives us whiplash.


Quote:

Harry Potter? No. If I'm going to read fantasy it just pick up 2005 copies of the NAIR (National Association of Realtors) reports.
I have never been more soundly corrected.


Quote:
I agree with both of you on the infrastructure and agree with you bale on the need to dump the internal combustion engine. But I do disagree with you on the on the issue of private cars. I just don't see Mass transit working all that well outside of the major cities. There will always be a need for our nation to have the majority of our transportation needs met by private vehicle's. But the difference will be that we will use battery/electric powered cars instead of fossil fuel dinosaurs. Of course as you said we need a new infrastructure to handle the 21st centuries need and demands. This would include the making the new infrastructure electric friendly.
There is certainly a lot to think about. The way we zone for one. When we all worked in coal mines and heavy industry there was a reason why it had to be "over there". I also believe small gains add up to bigger ones. A lot of our major cites do not do public transportation well. If there were ever a time when we had nothing better to do to fix this problem I would say this is it.
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:33 PM
 
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Well, I have deep reservations about this trillion-dollar infrastructure plan that's being cooked up in the entrails of the incoming administration. After all, even with Roosevelt's Alphabet Soup of government programs that concentrated on infrastructure development, unemployment in the US did not reach 1929 levels again until 1939.
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Old 12-21-2008, 02:45 PM
 
1,956 posts, read 4,864,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baystater View Post
I agree with both of you on the infrastructure and agree with you bale on the need to dump the internal combustion engine. But I do disagree with you on the on the issue of private cars. I just don't see Mass transit working all that well outside of the major cities. There will always be a need for our nation to have the majority of our transportation needs met by private vehicle's. But the difference will be that we will use battery/electric powered cars instead of fossil fuel dinosaurs. Of course as you said we need a new infrastructure to handle the 21st centuries need and demands. This would include the making the new infrastructure electric friendly.
Exactly. If the government's going to get involved in this, it would be far, far cheaper and easier to simply substitute a different fuel and continue the private car model that Americans have expressed their preference for. Unless one is a communist in the truest sense of the word - someone who focuses only on the community's needs to the detriment of individual freedom and prosperity - there is absolutely nothing wrong with private cars.

The last thing we need is more government investment in mass transit projects that no one is going to use.
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:37 PM
 
132 posts, read 487,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Whoes school of economics will best help the U.S economy?
I think that question is sadly irrelevant. We live in a democracy. When the economy isn't going well, people look to government to fix things for them, regardless of whether the government can actually help or not. Detailed facts and analysis don't matter... what matters is popular opinion!
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 24,272,537 times
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Central planning means that huge amounts of money will be wasted. The larger the enterprise the less efficient it is. Government is a parasite and cannot stimulate anything except to overload and kill it. This is what it has done and continues to do.
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