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Old 12-23-2008, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Western, Colorado
1,599 posts, read 2,819,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident View Post
Yes, very interesting. Must be those damn UAW contracts and pension obligations that will cause the vaunted Toyota to lose money.
It's the reason they only lost $1.6Bil and GM lost what, $35Bil?

Unions, wrecking one industry at a time.

Go back under your shade tree.
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:42 PM
 
8,778 posts, read 17,224,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoracer51 View Post
It's the reason they only lost $1.6Bil and GM lost what, $35Bil?

Unions, wrecking one industry at a time.

Go back under your shade tree.
How much money is Ford asking the government for?

They also have UAW contracts and pension obligations. Correct?

.......Awaiting an intelligent response....
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:59 PM
 
866 posts, read 3,880,909 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident View Post
How much money is Ford asking the government for?

They also have UAW contracts and pension obligations. Correct?

.......Awaiting an intelligent response....
Ford does not or did not ask for any loans from the Fed. Government. Ford says that they can continue operating through 2010, and the Auto Industry hopes that the overall economy will turn around by then.
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,962,594 times
Reputation: 8800
Well, bankruptcy will allow all contracts to be renegotiated. It is a way to streamline the entire operation.
I heard that the unions were once a problem, but they have renegotiated many times and accepted less. A huge headache are all those retired workers, with comfy pensions and great health care.

It is known in the industry that the management of these companies concentrated on autos which made the most profit per car sale rather than making less profitable cars that would be competitive with the foreign vehicles. Most of the problems of the US auto industry are the backward thinking managers who do not respond to general market needs. They catered, mostly, to a niche and now that has dried up and they are left with nothing.

I read DeLorean's book and On a Clear Day You can see General Motors. Even then, the management had been blasted for having a herd mentality, pretending the market was as it was decades ago. They have not changed, even now, after many warnings. They have squashed the forward looking managers who were amongst them, forcing all to conform to their lame corporate culture.

I think no bailout should be offered unless the management leaves with no added perks. Their contracts should be broken, in a bankruptcy, before those of the unions.

If the workers are supposed to be compensated more in line with that of their Japanese competitors, then certainly the management should follow the same standard, the CEO should make no more than 5 times the salary of the average employee.
This should include the entire compensation package, and not just salaries.

I find it disgraceful that those managers ran the companies aground.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:00 PM
 
8,778 posts, read 17,224,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexterguy View Post
Ford does not or did not ask for any loans from the Fed. Government. Ford says that they can continue operating through 2010, and the Auto Industry hopes that the overall economy will turn around by then.
Yes, Dex, i'm aware of that.

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Old 12-23-2008, 09:03 PM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,655,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident View Post
How much money is Ford asking the government for?

They also have UAW contracts and pension obligations. Correct?

.......Awaiting an intelligent response....
Ford already took "loans" on all their assets a few years ago and sold off Land Rover and Jaguar, etc... That's why they have some money now.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:10 PM
 
8,778 posts, read 17,224,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f_m View Post
Ford already took "loans" on all their assets a few years ago and sold off Land Rover and Jaguar, etc... That's why they have some money now.
They sold LR and Jag to Tata. What's the "etc." that they've sold off?
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:29 PM
 
4,711 posts, read 11,189,330 times
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Ford put up everything it has...right down to their famed blue oval in collateral for those loans. $23 billion I think they borrowed, back when lenders would lend.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:34 PM
f_m
 
2,289 posts, read 7,655,766 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident View Post
They sold LR and Jag to Tata. What's the "etc." that they've sold off?
They sold off shares of Mazda and have been looking to sell off Volvo (still in the process of doing it).
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Old 12-24-2008, 08:55 AM
 
866 posts, read 3,880,909 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident View Post
They sold LR and Jag to Tata. What's the "etc." that they've sold off?
They sold off Aston-Martin a few years back, but they probably burned through that cash along time ago.
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