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Old 01-15-2009, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
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[quote]bentlebee;7014853]
Quote:
Originally Posted by baystater View Post

The Jewish grandparents fought in the second world war.....

My Jewish granparents were murdered in Auswitz and never considered any of my Jewish family members them self Jewish as a race, neither does any of my Jewish friends.
First off sorry for your lost I hope that someday we humans can stop doing insane stuff like that. Unfortunately in Africa clearly show we haven't. Now on the issue of race or not, my girlfriend must run in very different circles than you do. They are pretty hardcore race not religion. I think (this is speculation on my part) another reason for their opinion was not just WWII and the Camps. But also the experience (as it has been explained to me) that Jews had in the Soviet union met with a lot of Antisemitism and blame for many of the problems there (real or not). Basically from what I got from them it was not a extremely comfortable living for the group. They basically banded together out of a feeling of self preservation there.

Quote:
We are white, and Jewish is considered a religion..if you practice it or not...if your mother is Jewish so will the kids be.
Yes I know. If we have children. My children will be consider Jewish. which to me is fine. But here what bothers me about the concept...Why only the mother? And how can you automatically force by a community into/out of a religion or race (whatever you believe it to be.) based on a parent's sex. Very Weird.

Last edited by baystater; 01-15-2009 at 06:20 PM..
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:51 PM
 
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being the in the NYC Metro, I can tell Jewish is a race and a religion

I mean there are no Jewish Catholics, but there are people who have converted to Judaism, but are not "Jewish" in race but in religion

You can have a black person be Jewish in Religion, but not in race

Meaning this black person is not related to the ancient israelites

but most white jews are related or descended from the ancient race of Jews

And apparently you mother has to be descended from the ancient race of jews or else you will not be considered Jewish in ethnicity by the ethnic jewish community

This tradition has helped them survive through the harsh middle ages

You can tell who is an ethnic jew by their physical features, at least I can
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Floribama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah View Post
You can tell who is an ethnic jew by their physical features, at least I can
And what are those?

Sorry, but I don't think Jewish is a race, most of them are white European descent just like I am. I often see people describe themselves as Jewish and atheist at the same time, it's just not possible IMO. I think Jews being white is partly why they are hated so much in the middle east.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah View Post
being the in the NYC Metro, I can tell Jewish is a race and a religion

I mean there are no Jewish Catholics, but there are people who have converted to Judaism, but are not "Jewish" in race but in religion

You can have a black person be Jewish in Religion, but not in race

Meaning this black person is not related to the ancient israelites

but most white jews are related or descended from the ancient race of Jews

And apparently you mother has to be descended from the ancient race of jews or else you will not be considered Jewish in ethnicity by the ethnic jewish community

This tradition has helped them survive through the harsh middle ages

You can tell who is an ethnic jew by their physical features, at least I can
Hello NJ Chutzpah,

At time Christianity was associated with the West. If for the most part Japanese , Chinese Arabs etc were not Christian do you think I could say hey there is a non-Christian by the look of them? This used to be certainly true. How about a tall blond guy? Islamic?
The Jewish "race" is a complete and utter crock. The bulk of them , the Ashkenazis are shown to have Turkic DNA and are actually more related to Turks than other now rather small Jewish groups especially considering the Ethiopians which are not even close. Yes most people can see on some people the Ashkenazi nose. They were converts in central Europe around the 10th century.



Is My Prom Date Kosher - InterfaithFamily.com

"Most people can pass as Jewish," said Bertrand, now 18, noting that school officials would be hard pressed to determine at the door who was Jewish. "If the school was going to investigate students they suspected brought non-Jewish dates, the only red flag would be if someone was another race."
So if Jews are checking at the door and cannot tell can someone explain to me about race? Looks like European passes.


Ofcourse the other issue is if it is a race then we have some pretty racially inflatory remarks do we not? Isn't just facinating how non-Jews can be regarded as "diluting" Jews while at the same time discuss facing anti-Semitism? Do I need to face anti-Goyism?
"Face the facts or abdicate from them: We are the next generation of Jews and we cannot afford a diluted Judaism in times of mixed marriages and anti-Semitic sentiment all over the world," he wrote. "How will we, the next generation of Jewish adults, make decisions rooted in Jewish faith without the proper guidance during high school?"
So essentially the religious Jew who is a Jew by faith seems to get off rather cleanly(depending on what they believe). However those who consider it a race and are concerned about diluting their meat seem to be of another sort entirely.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
We are white, and Jewish is considered a religion..if you practice it or not...if your mother is Jewish so will the kids be.

Sorry to revisit this same post but there was something in this statement that bother me and had to think about it for a bit. OK so you and the people you know consider yourselves "white" and Jewish by religion. Well here's the thing. My father grew up in the city of Boston (St. Gregory's parish, Dorchester) during the 1950's and early 60's and he and some of his friends have said that there was constant conflict between the Italians and Irish (which are also white and catholic). In fact there was many a racial slur thrown out and beat downs for having the wrong name in the wrong neighborhood. Basically these two groups (from what I got and was told) considered themselves separate races all the while being (for the most part) the same color and having the same religion.
Now this some turmoil between these groups still exist but on a very low level. This is partly because a lot of those people that lived there left when they had forced busing during the 70's. Basically these folk ran when the city decided to ship black student to white schools and vice versa. So they spread everybody (Italians and Irish) out and it seemed to work to low tensions. I honestly have not had a particular problem myself in my life time over being the race that I'm. In fact I'm a mix of the the two group (Irish/Italian). But I do still hear heard ethic slurs about the two. Of course it not just limited to those groups Jewish, black, Hispanic, etc. get it as well. But from the tone of these slurs and sometime the rhetoric I get behind them lead me to believe that there is till a of racial tension between the two groups.
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:15 PM
 
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yeh Jews are white, so are irish, Italians, and Russians, and they are also different ethnic groups

Now sure there is plenty of crossover, and Euros have been migrating around for some and intermarriage happened

Same with the jews

But what makes english, french, chinese, mexican an ethnic group is their shared gene pool, culture and tradition, history of marriage to one another, and living together for a millenia in the same nabe,

Eventually they become an ethnic group

All jews share genes that can be traced back to the ancient Israelites, and they all have the religion of judaism that binds them in tradition

for 5 millenia or more or less they married one another, sometimes outside, and brought new genes into the mix, and often not

But they are a race with one religious belief

now about the jews having turkic dna, that is because a long time ago a turkic tribe known as the Khazars converted to Judaism as they conquered the steppelands north of the black sea

But over time, they married other jews, and lived in the same nabes, and eventually they just assimilated into the jewish race and added their gene pool to it, no biggie

Last edited by NJ Chutzpah; 01-15-2009 at 10:23 PM..
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:07 AM
 
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How far back do we have to go to be traced back to the Israelites or are you going to go back to the evolution or to God created earth....
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Chutzpah View Post
yeh Jews are white, so are irish, Italians, and Russians, and they are also different ethnic groups

Now sure there is plenty of crossover, and Euros have been migrating around for some and intermarriage happened

Same with the jews

But what makes english, french, chinese, mexican an ethnic group is their shared gene pool, culture and tradition, history of marriage to one another, and living together for a millenia in the same nabe,

Eventually they become an ethnic group

All jews share genes that can be traced back to the ancient Israelites, and they all have the religion of judaism that binds them in tradition
Hi NJ Chutzpah,

No they don't especially not in particular. Assuming the "one drop rule" do you have any idea how many Jews were around the known world of the Roman empire? They were in Babylon, Persia, Egypt and even Rome. Also as far a Israel this does not even include the Assyrian exile of the Northern kingdom. They may have even made it as far as Japan.


Israelites Came To Ancient Japan


Have a look at Acts 2
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”
So not only where they everywhere many of them were Christians especially the ones not destroyed in Judea. Between these and the others that assimilated there is not peculiar link that modern Rabbinic Jews have than most anyone else, especially middle eastern cultures. Many Jews went Islamic as well.


Quote:
for 5 millenia or more or less they married one another, sometimes outside, and brought new genes into the mix, and often not

But they are a race with one religious belief
Its a fantasy.


Quote:
now about the jews having turkic dna, that is because a long time ago a turkic tribe known as the Khazars converted to Judaism as they conquered the steppelands north of the black sea
Thats the point. No genetic link to Israel and this is the bulk of believing Jews today.

Quote:
But over time, they married other jews, and lived in the same nabes, and eventually they just assimilated into the jewish race and added their gene pool to it, no biggie
So did everyone else with ancient Israelites. There is no unique relation and Its no biggie if Judaism is a legitimate path to God as a faith. From a faith point of view Christianity is a branch of Judaism and considering they too have such blood mixed in what are we talking about here? Ironically many Jews (not all ) see it this way but it is certain Christian groups that are desperate to entertain this myth of genetics. Why?

If Judaism is not a real entity or false path to God of what significance is it if some barbarian decided to call themselves a Jew? For the Zionist Christian there is no real link through faith thus they attempt to create the genetic link and maintain the myth of a "fallen Jew" to later be restored. So it is this group that finds itself in the split brain mentality of attempting to maintain some issue of race while they also believe in the faith that has racial universalism at it core. well for me this is not a legitimate form of Christianity.
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:43 PM
 
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Are you Jewish, just curious?

Zab Judah practices Judaism (a well-known pro-boxer)

But he is black, so not a jew in the racial sense of the term

He adopted the religion of the ancient israelites called Judaism

there are jews in many different countries because they scattered themselves around for a long long time, but they kept their culture alive, and had sex

Sometimes with only their own kind and sometimes outside, but they kept their culture intact, and reproduced, and lived together

And that is what makes them a race
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Old 01-17-2009, 06:00 AM
 
26,662 posts, read 40,649,439 times
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[quote=baystater;7015435]
Quote:
bentlebee;7014853]

First off sorry for your lost I hope that someday we humans can stop doing insane stuff like that. Unfortunately in Africa clearly show we haven't. Now on the issue of race or not, my girlfriend must run in very different circles than you do. They are pretty hardcore race not religion. I think (this is speculation on my part) another reason for their opinion was not just WWII and the Camps. But also the experience (as it has been explained to me) that Jews had in the Soviet union met with a lot of Antisemitism and blame for many of the problems there (real or not). Basically from what I got from them it was not a extremely comfortable living for the group. They basically banded together out of a feeling of self preservation there.



Yes I know. If we have children. My children will be consider Jewish. which to me is fine. But here what bothers me about the concept...Why only the mother? And how can you automatically force by a community into/out of a religion or race (whatever you believe it to be.) based on a parent's sex. Very Weird.


You can call it weird or whatever, but it is what it is...just like with muslims...if the father is a muslim the kids are muslims...that is also why Obama is a muslim, until he officially converts to another religion (but that is maybe off topic here).

Who ever came up with this, I don't know but that is how it is and isn't it great that their is a religion who respects woman other than having them walk behind the man and treat them as garbage!
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