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Old 01-07-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 13,392,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
I too think it's kind of outside the pale to scapegoat HG and TLC -- they're more reflections of reality, however imperfect.

But I also think there's a bit of truth there too. I used to watch these shows as sort of a supplement to my knowledge of homes and home-buying.

On "My First Home," I saw more than one couple get into a typical mortgage you hear about these days -- ARM, interest-only for a period of time, $0 down, Debt to Income over 45%, piggyback at 12%, substandard FICO, closing costs rolled into loan, etc.

On "Property Virgins," I saw on a NUMBER of occasions a person or couple mention they had (for instance) $25,000 saved up and had been approved for $260,000, and that they were looking in the $180,000 range, and Sandra questions them on this and advises they should try to buy more and then shows them houses in the $270,000-$290,000 range.

On "My House is Worth What?," I saw houses increase in value far beyond the upgrades, and then I saw appraisers recommending improvements that would "double the investment" in them.
I too noticed that on Property Virgins.
Also on my "Hidden Potential," they sometimes encourage people to put less down on their house so they can spend more on upgrades.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:22 PM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,816,452 times
Reputation: 1687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Ahh..there's the rub. How many people that do renovate their kitchens (replacing perfectly fine oak cabinets) can truly afford it? Is it really "their money" that they are spending? Aren't we in a real estate meltdown precisely because people are spending money they don't really have? Do you even understand what the show "What's My House Worth" is all about? It's about getting a high appraisal for their house so they can refinance their mortgage to enable them to renovate. In other words, they really don't have the money...they want to borrow more to "upgrade" their house. If they had the money, they'd be paying cash for the renovation.....but then that would defeat the purpose of the show.

And yeah, such wasteful behavior does affect others. Can you tell me again why we the fiscally responsible are supposed to bail you out?
Hear, hear! "We the fiscally responsible" includes me. I don't endorse any bailout. I wish everybody in trouble would be allowed to reap exactly what they've sowed. Maybe then they would be more responsible next time and not keep digging into the taxpayers' pocket. But you're making the assumption that people can't afford to renovate and that renovating is wasteful. If you have a lot of equity in your home-- as many of these homeowners do-- you can probably afford to upgrade that builder grade oak and tile crap. And if you're looking to sell in a tight market, buyers will choose the homes with the nicer, modern upgrades and pass the cheap, outdated ones right by. Homes with nicer kitchens and baths sell quicker and for a higher price, so those who care about such things would call that a savvy investment.

But that's hardly the point. The point is, ANYBODY that blames media for the problems, shortcomings or mistakes of individuals is either an enabler, a whiner or a scapegoat-seeker. The media reflects society, not controls it, and people are ultimately responsible for their own decisions, no matter how stupid they are. The second I see a realtor holding a homeowner hostage until they install granite tops or a lender holding a gun to a borrower's head until they refi for a redo, I'll promptly change my opinion. Until then, I'll continue believing that people aren't senseless robots programmed by the big, bad media.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,771 posts, read 17,226,527 times
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goodbyehollywood wrote:
I wish everybody in trouble would be allowed to reap exactly what they've sowed.
In the grand scheme of things, perhaps everyone IS reaping exactly what they have sown, even though it may not appear that way. With the limitations of our five senses, we can only perceive the tip of the iceberg, so we have a tendency to proclaim that life is unfair, simply because we perceive it as such.
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Old 01-07-2009, 02:17 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,913,289 times
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Quote:
goodbyehollywood;6883421]Hear, hear! "We the fiscally responsible" includes me. I don't endorse any bailout. I wish everybody in trouble would be allowed to reap exactly what they've sowed. Maybe then they would be more responsible next time and not keep digging into the taxpayers' pocket. But you're making the assumption that people can't afford to renovate and that renovating is wasteful.
Who's making the assumption? Unless I'm mistaken, this thread is about HGTV and certain shows like "My Home is Worth What?" where the assumption is that people can't afford to renovate unless they get the house refinanced....hence the need to get a high appraisal. If these people had cash, they would pay for the renovation in cash, and not have to get an appraisal. And there would be no TV show. Maybe you're missing something.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:32 PM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,816,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Who's making the assumption? Unless I'm mistaken, this thread is about HGTV and certain shows like "My Home is Worth What?" where the assumption is that people can't afford to renovate unless they get the house refinanced....hence the need to get a high appraisal. If these people had cash, they would pay for the renovation in cash, and not have to get an appraisal. And there would be no TV show. Maybe you're missing something.
Do you even know what "big picture" is? And, no, it isn't that Velvet Elvis you have hanging over the big hole in your wall.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:48 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,913,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood View Post
Do you even know what "big picture" is? And, no, it isn't that Velvet Elvis you have hanging over the big hole in your wall.
And the big picture is.....people can rip their otherwise functional oak cabinets as long as they can afford them and don't inconvenience other people? That as long as they can afford to be wasteful, they should be so? Isn't this what you said earlier? But didn't you also acknowledge that people have in fact been fiscally irresponsible to the point that our economy is teetering on the brink of collapse?

Do you even realize that you have successfully contradicted yourself?
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:17 PM
SXN
 
350 posts, read 1,152,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood View Post
Hear, hear! "We the fiscally responsible" includes me. I don't endorse any bailout. I wish everybody in trouble would be allowed to reap exactly what they've sowed.
100% agree, if you bit off more than you can chew, sucks to be you. If you're a janitor making $32,000 a year and buy a half a million dollar home with an ARM, you're asking to lose your home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood View Post
But that's hardly the point. The point is, ANYBODY that blames media for the problems, shortcomings or mistakes of individuals is either an enabler, a whiner or a scapegoat-seeker. The media reflects society, not controls it, and people are ultimately responsible for their own decisions, no matter how stupid they are. The second I see a realtor holding a homeowner hostage until they install granite tops or a lender holding a gun to a borrower's head until they refi for a redo, I'll promptly change my opinion. Until then, I'll continue believing that people aren't senseless robots programmed by the big, bad media.
You're giving our society a ton of credit. Media can easily influence people from who we elect to the most powerful position in the world - to dictating the the latest fashion trends we follow. It might not influence people like you and me, but for plenty of other people out there, they'll follow the actions of their friends, relatives and favorite celebs. Oprah told me to buy a book, I'm getting it. Chris Mathews told me this guy is an idiot, I'm voting for the other guy. Jim Cramer told me to pick up this stock, I'm dropping 5K on it. The problem I have with our society is complete lack of any sort of accountability. You make mistakes, pay the price, let the market play out and let the rest of who played by the rules play the game on a level playing field.

I enjoyed programs such as Flip this House as much as the next guy, but the aftermath is far more interesting. Just google the names of the people on the show. Thought this was a good one:
FOXNews.com - 'Flip This House' Star Accused of Faking Work on Popular Cable Television Show - Celebrity Gossip | Entertainment News | Arts And Entertainment
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:39 PM
 
Location: NH Lakes Region
388 posts, read 1,446,987 times
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Very few people get to buy a house that is EXACTLY what they are looking for, but they weigh the pros and cons and possibly buy the house. That is what I ended up doing... I love the location, the overall house style, am absolutely enchanted by a huge brick fireplace and hearth, wide-plank pine floors throughout, and a screened-in porch with a beautiful view of the pond in back. And it was something I could afford. Now for the down side - I HATE the kitchen, and the porch could really only be used about 5 months out of the year (even if I wrapped myself up in a blanket in the Spring and Fall, my morning coffee was cold in minutes unless I had a thermal mug).

I've loved watching the HGTV shows to see what is out there... what the possibilities are... and incorporating bits and pieces into GRADUAL renovations to the house have worked out well. (so far, i can have my morning coffee WITHOUT a blanket... we won't discuss the kitchen).

I must have missed the subliminal messages, though, because I had no overwhelming urge to install granite immediately or refinance the house and do a 100% makeover.

It's not HGTV's fault that people don't have common sense or self-control. People are responsible for their own actions, and unfortunately, a lot of them really just got caught up in the frenzy and had problems separating the fact from the fantasy.

I have to admit, though, that the number of folks in this thread saying they'd like to see follow-up episodes to show these folks desperately trying to salvage their homes and lives is a bit depressing.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Keller, TX
5,670 posts, read 5,371,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snafu View Post
I have to admit, though, that the number of folks in this thread saying they'd like to see follow-up episodes to show these folks desperately trying to salvage their homes and lives is a bit depressing.
I agree, pretty vindictive.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:55 PM
 
Location: CA
830 posts, read 2,430,478 times
Reputation: 1011
Quote:
Then buy a house that matches half your income. If you make 60K, that means mortgage should be 90k (3x30), which will get you into a modest sized condo.
No, it wouldn't. There are no condos where I live.

What good would a mortgage that matches half my income do me? Your reasoning for getting a mortgage based on one of a couple's income was that one of them could lose their job, leaving them with that one other income. Following that logic, if I were to lose my job, I wouldn't be able to afford a mortgage that based on half my income either - at least after I exhausted my savings. But I wouldn't be any more able to afford rent in that scenario, so there's not much point dwelling on that.

Like I said, I'm doing fine. I'm a fine, responsible, upstanding citizen in no danger of foreclosure

Quote:
The only people I know who like that network channel are gay.
??!!?
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