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Thread summary:

A quick house sale, is it doable now ? Tell me about the bailout, mortgage, recourse, loan, equity and home construction.

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Old 01-13-2009, 11:11 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,227,470 times
Reputation: 2777

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
I agree the system is bad and I don't understand the credit score thing, although I have a high credit score. IMO it should be based on: pay your bills on time, not having much debt, pay rent or mortgages on time, etc.

That is how you get good credit in Europe and there isn't a score related to it, not that customers are aware off, but when you need a mortgage or a credit card they go by the money you have, your payment history and job history....you don't get awarded for the debt you have...just for paying it off on time!

Still I don't believe that any one in the government ever ment to say that you have to pay with a credit card if you can't afford it...and when the govenrment wanted the American dream for most people of owning their own home, they never stated it had to be a home you can't afford...what is wrong with owning a $ 100 K home or a $ 60 K home if you can afford it...most people heard the sentence "everybody should own a home" and in their minds it was every one needs to own a $ 300 K or more expensive home.... that is where things went wrong

Also when people look at the car that the neighbors drive and they go out and buy a similar one they can't afford, etc...
Sounds like the system in Europe is more sane than ours....... The American way has for a long time , been , spend , spend , until you are broke. I think it all started after WW II , and just escalated from there. We have a saying here , " Trying to keep up with the Joneses " , its been the American way.
Marketing is the blame for a lot of this , in my opinion. Most people did not know they wanted a larger , wider , car , until they were told they did. Most did not know they needed a house with a formal dining room , until they were told it was necessary to add to the " value" of the home. It gos on and on, many examples of more is better , and , why not ?......." the value of your house will increase before its even built , you can't afford the payments ? , never mind , you will grow into it with inflation " " besides , you can always refinance in a year or two "....thats the way it goes.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:30 PM
 
339 posts, read 1,403,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
Sounds like the system in Europe is more sane than ours....... The American way has for a long time , been , spend , spend , until you are broke. I think it all started after WW II , and just escalated from there. We have a saying here , " Trying to keep up with the Joneses " , its been the American way.
Marketing is the blame for a lot of this , in my opinion. Most people did not know they wanted a larger , wider , car , until they were told they did. Most did not know they needed a house with a formal dining room , until they were told it was necessary to add to the " value" of the home. It gos on and on, many examples of more is better , and , why not ?......." the value of your house will increase before its even built , you can't afford the payments ? , never mind , you will grow into it with inflation " " besides , you can always refinance in a year or two "....thats the way it goes.
This pretty much echos my thoughts as well, however, when I've read several other threads in this forum, I see many who comment how ridiculous it is and throw out the "personal responsibility" line. While I am all for personal responsibility, I don't ignore the powerful impact of marketing aimed at people's emotions as well as group psychology effects. The way an individual behaves outside of a group can be very different than the way he/she behaves within a group structure. Some people are just better about not being sweep away in group behavior (i.e., keeping up with the Jones) and also some people are much more analytical and don't get as swept away in the emotional, not to mention excessively repetitious ads.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee
Still I don't believe that any one in the government ever ment to say that you have to pay with a credit card if you can't afford it...and when the govenrment wanted the American dream for most people of owning their own home, they never stated it had to be a home you can't afford
Doesn't matter what the government meant to say. It's what they said period. If they said "everybody should own a home" then that is what the said period. You claim that "they never stated it had to be a home you can't afford" but then opposite is also true that they never said it had to be a home you can afford. Sorry, just playing the devil's advocate here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee
what is wrong with owning a $ 100 K home or a $ 60 K home if you can afford it...most people heard the sentence "everybody should own a home" and in their minds it was every one needs to own a $ 300 K or more expensive home.... that is where things went wrong
Absolutely nothing wrong with that! However, there were many places where people couldn't find houses at those prices. But it's better to compare wages to the cost of homes. Over the years the prices of homes greatly outpaced the average wage... THAT is where it went wrong.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:22 PM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,227,470 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaindow View Post
This pretty much echos my thoughts as well, however, when I've read several other threads in this forum, I see many who comment how ridiculous it is and throw out the "personal responsibility" line. While I am all for personal responsibility, I don't ignore the powerful impact of marketing aimed at people's emotions as well as group psychology effects. The way an individual behaves outside of a group can be very different than the way he/she behaves within a group structure. Some people are just better about not being sweep away in group behavior (i.e., keeping up with the Jones) and also some people are much more analytical and don't get as swept away in the emotional, not to mention excessively repetitious ads.




Doesn't matter what the government meant to say. It's what they said period. If they said "everybody should own a home" then that is what the said period. You claim that "they never stated it had to be a home you can't afford" but then opposite is also true that they never said it had to be a home you can afford. Sorry, just playing the devil's advocate here!



Absolutely nothing wrong with that! However, there were many places where people couldn't find houses at those prices. But it's better to compare wages to the cost of homes. Over the years the prices of homes greatly outpaced the average wage... THAT is where it went wrong.
How right you are , on all counts......... I think , on the issue of personal responsibility , the the average American has had little exposure to ethics . Its no longer part of our learning . Schools don't teach it anymore. we are a different society than 30 years ago , and , its too late to turn back.
It will be an interesting observation at to how all this plays out. So many people that do not know how to survive. I keep looking for signs , but , its just now starting to filter down to the man on the street.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:21 PM
 
26,661 posts, read 40,589,239 times
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Why don't school don't teach it...because most teachers might be having grown up with the same patern of getting more and more debt and how can you teach something else than you know yourself...

I'm not blaming people who were raised like this, but there need to be a change. I was raised in Europe and what we learned in school and most people learned from their parents is...a certain amount of what you make in a job or what you get from your parents as a child, a part should be used for bills and than you save a part and what is left over you can spent for fun things...whatever that might be.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 52,760,224 times
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Bottom line is simply houses are not a wealth creating investment. Instead they are an cost of doing business. Speculating on houses in an inflating price market just rearranged wealth. It did not create it. The result is we have a lot more money worth less than we started with. Opps.
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:07 AM
 
Location: In My Own Little World. . .
3,238 posts, read 8,083,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K View Post
Depending on how your money comes in, you most certainly can walk away from the IRS just as you would be able to with any other creditor. All they will do is file a lien on your person (if you have no property in your name). It will last for 10 years then go away. Nothing more.

If one is walking away from a mortgage and taking a hit on their credit already, why would they care about a second hit on it by the IRS ? The IRS can't collect what isn't available to collect or collect what isn't yours no matter how you spin it !

Same goes for the bank. Forget about a short sale... just walk from it and be done with it. With little or no equity in it, it's the perfect time to make a change !
This is so wrong! Please don't listen to this (bad) advice. The IRS WILL collect their money. It WILL NOT go away in 10 years. I worked for a state taxation division, and we pursued (and harrassed and collected) on tax bills that were over 20 years old! And I know the IRS is just as much, if not more, hard nosed about collecting.

Don't ever take anyone's advice about not paying the IRS and "forgetting" about it. IT NEVER GOES AWAY. They will take any rebates/refunds you have coming to you, even if it's years and years from now. They will take money out of your checking account, put a lien on any property you own in the future. And yes, they do keep track of people who owe them money -- they have your social security number. The worst part is while your "forgetting" about your debt, penalties and interest are accruing, so a $4,000 tax bill can, and will, become $40,000 by the time they catch up with you. I saw these things happen in the taxation department I worked in.
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:44 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,980,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colleeng47 View Post
This is so wrong! Please don't listen to this (bad) advice. The IRS WILL collect their money. It WILL NOT go away in 10 years. I worked for a state taxation division, and we pursued (and harrassed and collected) on tax bills that were over 20 years old! And I know the IRS is just as much, if not more, hard nosed about collecting.

Don't ever take anyone's advice about not paying the IRS and "forgetting" about it. IT NEVER GOES AWAY. They will take any rebates/refunds you have coming to you, even if it's years and years from now. They will take money out of your checking account, put a lien on any property you own in the future. And yes, they do keep track of people who owe them money -- they have your social security number. The worst part is while your "forgetting" about your debt, penalties and interest are accruing, so a $4,000 tax bill can, and will, become $40,000 by the time they catch up with you. I saw these things happen in the taxation department I worked in.
All depends on your individual situation and how things are structured as to how the IRS deals with you. And you should talk to a Fed Tax Attorney... A GOOD ONE, you are uniformed ! Individual State methods are considerably different as you suggest...

But like I said, depends on ones financial and structural situation too... If you have tons of assets (property and bank/investment accounts) in your personal name then of course they will be all over them and you. If you don't... what exactly are they going to collect and how are they going to collect it ? And after 3 years everything can be discharged in a BK anyway...

The IRS wants everyone to think like you. They want you scared, they want you selling everything to pay them... It saves them money and generates more tax revenue too !
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:26 PM
 
Location: In My Own Little World. . .
3,238 posts, read 8,083,777 times
Reputation: 1601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K View Post
All depends on your individual situation and how things are structured as to how the IRS deals with you. And you should talk to a Fed Tax Attorney... A GOOD ONE, you are uniformed ! Individual State methods are considerably different as you suggest...

But like I said, depends on ones financial and structural situation too... If you have tons of assets (property and bank/investment accounts) in your personal name then of course they will be all over them and you. If you don't... what exactly are they going to collect and how are they going to collect it ? And after 3 years everything can be discharged in a BK anyway...

The IRS wants everyone to think like you. They want you scared, they want you selling everything to pay them... It saves them money and generates more tax revenue too !
I can't believe this. Where are you getting your information from? Personal income taxes and student loans are not dischargable in a bankruptcy.

And, I do not need a good Fed Tax Attorney because I would never be dumb enough to avoid paying taxes and naively believe the IRS would "forget" about me. Does that make me scared? Nah, it makes me smart.
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:45 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,980,545 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by colleeng47 View Post
I can't believe this. Where are you getting your information from? Personal income taxes and student loans are not dischargable in a bankruptcy.

And, I do not need a good Fed Tax Attorney because I would never be dumb enough to avoid paying taxes and naively believe the IRS would "forget" about me. Does that make me scared? Nah, it makes me smart.
You can't believe this ? If you don't, for educational purposes consult a fed tax attorney for clarification ! You don't have to be dumb and avoid paying taxes to consult with one... I call that being smart .
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:18 PM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,227,470 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K View Post
You can't believe this ? If you don't, for educational purposes consult a fed tax attorney for clarification ! You don't have to be dumb and avoid paying taxes to consult with one... I call that being smart .
I have to agree here , I have known people who have had their IRS debt go away. They can't get blood from a turnip , and , they know it.
Some of the harder to get rid of IRS debt is payroll tax money , but , even that , can be reduced to a fraction of the amount , I know , been there , done that.........they DO want you to be scared , and , from time to time they make examples of their power . Like said , talk to a good ex IRS agent , they can help you.
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