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Old 01-17-2009, 09:32 AM
 
18,353 posts, read 16,309,927 times
Reputation: 7154

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Quote:
Originally Posted by N.Y.Traveler View Post
"Most of our debt is being created by trade with China and oil..."
Let me see...
11 trillion dollars Chinese goods and Mideast oil????
Did I miss anything from what you posted?
Did you mean more than 8000 miles of $100 dollars bills we spent were going all to China and Mideast?
Something is not right!
Do you remember there was a $600 toilet seat that the Department of Defense brought? A toilet seat that I could buy for $15 to $18 in any local department stores?
Mismanagement is the word!

Hi N.Y.Travele,

You have missed everything. I have tried to patiently ask questions but you seem to prefer these hostile rhetorical retorts. How many times to I have to explain it, the "national debt" is not intended to be paid off. The national debt has no direct relation to foreign debt. In our system we happen to monetize government securities. You need to pay attention and maintain what you monetize.
If we decided to monetize Starbuch's gift cards they could be passed around as a medium of exchange. However what happens when Starbuch's actually starts pouring the coffee? The medium of exchange disappears. Its a depression. For the record I am against monetizing debt for this reason but that is our system and it is clear you are not aware of it like so many others to the detriment of us all.
If you feel you do know these things which economist has had the most influence on your thoughts? Have you studied the early schools of thought like Thomas Mun or Physiocrats? Perhaps classical Adam Smith or Ricardo? Do you know the difference between Keynesian, Monetarists or Austrians?
You believe you have an intuitive understanding of what is happening. I have tried to open your eyes that is is anything but intuitive. Its counter intuitive which requires taking the time to understand it not simply responding with cliche`s.
Why do you think someone such as myself who has no debt but mortgage debt views public debt so differently?
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: southern california
57,909 posts, read 76,888,620 times
Reputation: 51274
well depends on who you listen to.
if its to people that have been poor, its horrible means we are going back to the hole we clawed our way out of.
if you listen to people that got brain washed by ronnie reagan,
debt is meaningless and our current path is normal and appropriate.
some hard right people are giggling about the national debt they think it will not affect them.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:45 AM
 
18,353 posts, read 16,309,927 times
Reputation: 7154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
well depends on who you listen to.
if its to people that have been poor, its horrible means we are going back to the hole we clawed our way out of.
if you listen to people that got brain washed by ronnie reagan,
debt is meaningless and our current path is normal and appropriate.
some hard right people are giggling about the national debt they think it will not affect them.
Please explain in your own words the process of money creation.
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: southern california
57,909 posts, read 76,888,620 times
Reputation: 51274
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Please explain in your own words the process of money creation.
sorry no can do but you can read "wealth of nations" by adam smith
The Wealth of Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-17-2009, 09:56 AM
 
18,353 posts, read 16,309,927 times
Reputation: 7154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
sorry no can do but you can read "wealth of nations" by adam smith
The Wealth of Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have already read it. Its nice to have the great books collection and long train rides. However his main thrust had nothing to do with money creation but trade. He was in fact wrong since he thought both nations needed comparative advantages to trade. I also read Ricardo who proved him wrong.

What does this have to do with monetizing debt?
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:15 AM
CIB
 
1 posts, read 893 times
Reputation: 10
Good Morning from Texas,

I want to know why severe deficite spending is good for our country. Can anyone explain that to me? It seems to me it's a house of cards that can bring the nation down at some point in time.

It seems that John Meynard Keynes' philosophies have taken over our thinking about how to run a government.

My philosohy is to NOT spend more than 'you' take in and not accumulate a lot of debt.

I guess that's pretty stupid huh?

CIB

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Old 10-09-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
29,872 posts, read 65,642,204 times
Reputation: 34934
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIB View Post
I want to know why severe deficit spending is good for our country.
Can anyone explain that to me?
Did someone tell you that it was?
If so... take that up with them.

ps color and bolded text is not helpful... it's only annoying.

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Old 10-09-2013, 11:24 AM
 
Location: TX
795 posts, read 1,253,135 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by CIB View Post
Good Morning from Texas,

I want to know why severe deficite spending is good for our country. Can anyone explain that to me? It seems to me it's a house of cards that can bring the nation down at some point in time.

It seems that John Meynard Keynes' philosophies have taken over our thinking about how to run a government.

My philosohy is to NOT spend more than 'you' take in and not accumulate a lot of debt.

I guess that's pretty stupid huh?

CIB
Government spending multiplier. Each dollar spent increases national income by more than that dollar.

And here we go again comparing personal finance to government. Doesn't work. When the government borrows and "spends," it is not taking out credit cards and buying flat screen TVs. It is investing in capital projects and paying wages - generating returns on capital.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:29 AM
 
18,353 posts, read 16,309,927 times
Reputation: 7154
Quote:
Originally Posted by celcius View Post
Government spending multiplier. Each dollar spent increases national income by more than that dollar.

And here we go again comparing personal finance to government. Doesn't work. When the government borrows and "spends," it is not taking out credit cards and buying flat screen TVs. It is investing in capital projects and paying wages - generating returns on capital.
Agreed.

Da guberment in no way creates a financial problem with deficit spending under the current institutional structure.

In no way can it be measured like this. Its impact on what it spends on the physical economy is another matter. There is a difference between social, military and infrastructural, but this constant appeal to the state of the state's finances is silly when all things are measured in the state's liabilities itself. Without government debt there would be no money. It is money. Its the money......
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:07 PM
 
10,000 posts, read 4,383,898 times
Reputation: 1972
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.Y.Traveler View Post
"Most of our debt is being created by trade with China and oil..."
Let me see...
11 trillion dollars Chinese goods and Mideast oil????
Did I miss anything from what you posted?
Did you mean more than 8000 miles of $100 dollars bills we spent were going all to China and Mideast?
Something is not right!
Do you remember there was a $600 toilet seat that the Department of Defense brought? A toilet seat that I could buy for $15 to $18 in any local department stores?
Mismanagement is the word!
A large part of our national debt exists as American have desired cheap Chinese goods and foreign oil.

Not a new link, but I think the essence still applies. Maybe gwynedd1 can comment.

Does China Fund Our Spending? [SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust, PowerShares QQQ Trust, Series 1 (ETF), SPDR Dow Jones Industrial Average ETF, iShares FTSE/Xinhua China 25 Index (ETF), Morgan Stanley China A Share Fund, Inc., SPDR S&P China (ETF)] - Seeking Al
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