City-Data Forum National Debt! Is it good or bad? \$1 trillion dollars (in \$100 bills) is about 678.66 miles long! (2013, credit)
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01-13-2009, 02:33 PM
 Location: Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, New York 195 posts, read 691,221 times Reputation: 89

A one hundred dollars bill is about 0.0043 inches think!
A trillion dollars, in \$100 dollars bills, are about 678.66 miles long!
Going from New York to Philly is about 110 miles!
Going from New York to L.A., Calif is about 2800 miles!
The U.S. debt is about \$11 trillion now!
Obama will add another one trillion dollars!
Totally, if they were \$100 bills, \$12 trillions will be equal to 8144 miles long!
My question is...
Is it good or bad when it comes to national debt?

Last edited by N.Y.Traveler; 01-13-2009 at 02:43 PM..

01-13-2009, 02:50 PM
 13,061 posts, read 19,253,687 times Reputation: 21418
Duplicate post, current topic by the way, why have another one?

//www.city-data.com/forum/busin...ood-point.html

By the way, At any moment, there are about 1,000,000,000,000,000 ants alive on the planet. If each ant were half a centimeter long, they would form a chain long enough to circle the Earth 125,000 times! Yeah that's about as thought provoking as your \$100 bill analogy.

01-13-2009, 09:45 PM
 Location: Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, New York 195 posts, read 691,221 times Reputation: 89
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dd714 Duplicate post, current topic by the way, why have another one? //www.city-data.com/forum/busin...ood-point.html By the way, At any moment, there are about 1,000,000,000,000,000 ants alive on the planet. If each ant were half a centimeter long, they would form a chain long enough to circle the Earth 125,000 times! Yeah that's about as thought provoking as your \$100 bill analogy.
If you could repay the national debt by the amount of "ants" you have, your comparison between ants and \$100 dollars bills is validated. Otherwise, you are making a comparison between apples and oranges. My post is not the same as the one you mentioned.
National debt is not only about the money things. It has something to do with the national security as well. Wanna to know what happened to Wall Street, if the Chinese, Japanese, Arabs and Russians decided to released all the U.S. Treasury bonds tomorrow at 9 a.m....I guess you will probably say nothing is going to happen!
........Well, I do respect your freedom of speech!

01-14-2009, 04:38 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by N.Y.Traveler If you could repay the national debt by the amount of "ants" you have, your comparison between ants and \$100 dollars bills is validated. Otherwise, you are making a comparison between apples and oranges. My post is not the same as the one you mentioned. National debt is not only about the money things. It has something to do with the national security as well. Wanna to know what happened to Wall Street, if the Chinese, Japanese, Arabs and Russians decided to released all the U.S. Treasury bonds tomorrow at 9 a.m....I guess you will probably say nothing is going to happen! ........Well, I do respect your freedom of speech!
Which you know isn't that far fetched. Something I really worry about is once this war spills over into Pakistan come 2012-2013 it will realign the nations into another cold war, say US/Europe/India/Israel with that of China/Russia/Iran/Pakistan/MiddleEast/NorthAfrica. It's called the "Pax Americana" which 30 years ago was a divide between that of E. and W. Berlin and that of the Vietnam and Korean war to foster peace and prosperity on the homeland, today this may be that of a creation of a buffer zone Afghanistan/Pakistan/India to keep the sleeping giant from getting it source of fuel (70% coming from the middle-east) and waking up - China.

This one in particular comes from the "Project for the New American Century" which is a neoconservative think tank, although non-existant anymore, it is still seeing it's revelations fulfilled. One problem with recent globalist strategies is that they don't see the reprecussions, often called "blowback" or unintended consequences, one of which is this guerilla warfare and IEDs used in Iraq, about the cost of a big mac to take away the life of a combatant soldier. The bigger blowback may be that of actually heating up a cold war in the next decade or so.

But war aside which consumes about 1/3 of our budget, the other 2/3 being social causes really (Medicare and SS). We aren't better able to take care of our nation. I mean perhaps taking back that 1/3 being spent on foreign countries that don't appreciate what we are doing, why not spend it on the needs of the American people such as universal healthcare or fixing this economy or funding research on alternative fuels (where we wouldn't need to be in the middle-east in the first place). The problem is that those that run our country no longer work for the people, they work for special interests and exterting global dominance is an interest to be reaped since the dawn of civilization in itself.

Last edited by RangerDuke08; 01-14-2009 at 04:50 AM..

01-14-2009, 06:09 PM
 Location: Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, New York 195 posts, read 691,221 times Reputation: 89
Quote:
 Originally Posted by RangerDuke08 Which you know isn't that far fetched. Something I really worry about is once this war spills over into Pakistan come 2012-2013 it will realign the nations into another cold war, say US/Europe/India/Israel with that of China/Russia/Iran/Pakistan/MiddleEast/NorthAfrica. It's called the "Pax Americana" which 30 years ago was a divide between that of E. and W. Berlin and that of the Vietnam and Korean war to foster peace and prosperity on the homeland, today this may be that of a creation of a buffer zone Afghanistan/Pakistan/India to keep the sleeping giant from getting it source of fuel (70% coming from the middle-east) and waking up - China. This one in particular comes from the "Project for the New American Century" which is a neoconservative think tank, although non-existant anymore, it is still seeing it's revelations fulfilled. One problem with recent globalist strategies is that they don't see the reprecussions, often called "blowback" or unintended consequences, one of which is this guerilla warfare and IEDs used in Iraq, about the cost of a big mac to take away the life of a combatant soldier. The bigger blowback may be that of actually heating up a cold war in the next decade or so. But war aside which consumes about 1/3 of our budget, the other 2/3 being social causes really (Medicare and SS). We aren't better able to take care of our nation. I mean perhaps taking back that 1/3 being spent on foreign countries that don't appreciate what we are doing, why not spend it on the needs of the American people such as universal healthcare or fixing this economy or funding research on alternative fuels (where we wouldn't need to be in the middle-east in the first place). The problem is that those that run our country no longer work for the people, they work for special interests and exterting global dominance is an interest to be reaped since the dawn of civilization in itself.
Very well said! Thanks!

01-14-2009, 07:47 PM
 18,353 posts, read 16,312,673 times Reputation: 7154
Quote:
 Originally Posted by N.Y.Traveler If you could repay the national debt by the amount of "ants" you have, your comparison between ants and \$100 dollars bills is validated. Otherwise, you are making a comparison between apples and oranges. My post is not the same as the one you mentioned. National debt is not only about the money things. It has something to do with the national security as well. Wanna to know what happened to Wall Street, if the Chinese, Japanese, Arabs and Russians decided to released all the U.S. Treasury bonds tomorrow at 9 a.m....I guess you will probably say nothing is going to happen! ........Well, I do respect your freedom of speech!
Hi N.Y.Traveler,

You do realize that there is no direct relationship between the national debt and treasuries held by foreign central banks. The reason why treasuries are sold is to remove dollars in circulation. That is not a direct result of deficits which are financed by the FED. If China and Japan converted some of their treasuries to cash and started buying things that would be great.
As far as hypotheticals go I suppose the US could just threaten to Nuke Japan and China. Sure it would generally go against the
US self interest for obvious reasons. The same thing goes for China and its hoard of US treasuries. It could financially destroy the US against its own self interest as it destroys the value of its own foreign reserves.
Personally I don't think the international wealthy class with addresses all over the world really cares at this point about national security. Where does a billionaire really live? I worry about them more than I do about China.

01-14-2009, 08:03 PM
 18,353 posts, read 16,312,673 times Reputation: 7154
Quote:
 Originally Posted by RangerDuke08 Which you know isn't that far fetched. Something I really worry about is once this war spills over into Pakistan come 2012-2013 it will realign the nations into another cold war, say US/Europe/India/Israel with that of China/Russia/Iran/Pakistan/MiddleEast/NorthAfrica. It's called the "Pax Americana" which 30 years ago was a divide between that of E. and W. Berlin and that of the Vietnam and Korean war to foster peace and prosperity on the homeland, today this may be that of a creation of a buffer zone Afghanistan/Pakistan/India to keep the sleeping giant from getting it source of fuel (70% coming from the middle-east) and waking up - China. This one in particular comes from the "Project for the New American Century" which is a neoconservative think tank, although non-existant anymore, it is still seeing it's revelations fulfilled. One problem with recent globalist strategies is that they don't see the reprecussions, often called "blowback" or unintended consequences, one of which is this guerilla warfare and IEDs used in Iraq, about the cost of a big mac to take away the life of a combatant soldier. The bigger blowback may be that of actually heating up a cold war in the next decade or so. But war aside which consumes about 1/3 of our budget, the other 2/3 being social causes really (Medicare and SS). We aren't better able to take care of our nation. I mean perhaps taking back that 1/3 being spent on foreign countries that don't appreciate what we are doing, why not spend it on the needs of the American people such as universal healthcare or fixing this economy or funding research on alternative fuels (where we wouldn't need to be in the middle-east in the first place). The problem is that those that run our country no longer work for the people, they work for special interests and exterting global dominance is an interest to be reaped since the dawn of civilization in itself.
Hi RangerDuke08,

It sounds like you might be one of the few skeptics on the notion that WWII got us out of the Depression. With all this war we should be in financial paradise. I always thought the best way to build wealth and create financial stability was to begin razing entire villages with fire storms and artillery. Think of the Jobs. What are we doing wrong? Perhaps we need to escalate the war into a WWIII wealth building carnage.
You reveal part of the problem but a big part nonetheless.

01-16-2009, 06:43 PM
 Location: Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, New York 195 posts, read 691,221 times Reputation: 89
Print & spend!
Print & spend!
Print & spend!
Print & spend!
This is the only solution we have...

01-16-2009, 08:41 PM
 18,353 posts, read 16,312,673 times Reputation: 7154
Quote:
 Originally Posted by N.Y.Traveler Print & spend! Print & spend! Print & spend! Print & spend! This is the only solution we have...

N.Y.Traveler,

This is old news. I don't know about you but I know the old cliche` about fighting the last war like the new one. Its a mistake. Haven't you ever at leisure sipped on a cup of tea? First its too warm and one blows on it. Then as it cools it becomes ideal until its cold. If the tea is at the wrong temperature on the cool side it does little good to blow on it.

We had inflation mostly caused by housing and out of the 2003 bear market began massive hedge fund leveraging and speculation into oil and commodities. Buying on leverage increases the money supply.
Unfortunately the legitimate goods and services economy gets dragged along with it and must value its economy on the current money supply and value of the dollar. As much as inflation should have been prevented deflation is not the cure. At all times price stability should be the goal. Unfortunately the fundamental nature of fractional reserves makes this an endless cycle of inflation/bust cycles.

May I ask why are you concerned about a government that created 10 trillion and are not concerned commercial banks created 45 trillion? Who created more money? Who printed most of it? However, as I said, deflation is not the cure and public debt must replace the now deflating commercial credit(debt money). Either way it is the money and we must have a money supply and debt is money and money is debt. All dollars are created as debt. A dollar is simply a government IOU(I am not endorsing this inherently corrupt system).

The way the money/debt is spent is the critical issue. Most of our debt is being created by trade with China and oil. Simply don't sell debt to China and raise taxes to create a stable market for oil alternatives. Policy can be made to prevent real debt while at the same time the money supply may be kept stable. The last rebate saw that 80% of it was saved or used to retire debt. The commercial banks essentially running our government hate this since it shifts the balance of money creation away from them interest free. However this is essential for the goods and services economy.

01-17-2009, 03:30 AM
 Location: Sheepshead Bay, Brooklyn, New York 195 posts, read 691,221 times Reputation: 89
Quote:
 Originally Posted by gwynedd1 N.Y.Traveler, This is old news. I don't know about you but I know the old cliche` about fighting the last war like the new one. Its a mistake. Haven't you ever at leisure sipped on a cup of tea? First its too warm and one blows on it. Then as it cools it becomes ideal until its cold. If the tea is at the wrong temperature on the cool side it does little good to blow on it. We had inflation mostly caused by housing and out of the 2003 bear market began massive hedge fund leveraging and speculation into oil and commodities. Buying on leverage increases the money supply. Unfortunately the legitimate goods and services economy gets dragged along with it and must value its economy on the current money supply and value of the dollar. As much as inflation should have been prevented deflation is not the cure. At all times price stability should be the goal. Unfortunately the fundamental nature of fractional reserves makes this an endless cycle of inflation/bust cycles. May I ask why are you concerned about a government that created 10 trillion and are not concerned commercial banks created 45 trillion? Who created more money? Who printed most of it? However, as I said, deflation is not the cure and public debt must replace the now deflating commercial credit(debt money). Either way it is the money and we must have a money supply and debt is money and money is debt. All dollars are created as debt. A dollar is simply a government IOU(I am not endorsing this inherently corrupt system). The way the money/debt is spent is the critical issue. Most of our debt is being created by trade with China and oil. Simply don't sell debt to China and raise taxes to create a stable market for oil alternatives. Policy can be made to prevent real debt while at the same time the money supply may be kept stable. The last rebate saw that 80% of it was saved or used to retire debt. The commercial banks essentially running our government hate this since it shifts the balance of money creation away from them interest free. However this is essential for the goods and services economy.
"Most of our debt is being created by trade with China and oil..."
Let me see...
11 trillion dollars Chinese goods and Mideast oil????
Did I miss anything from what you posted?
Did you mean more than 8000 miles of \$100 dollars bills we spent were going all to China and Mideast?
Something is not right!
Do you remember there was a \$600 toilet seat that the Department of Defense brought? A toilet seat that I could buy for \$15 to \$18 in any local department stores?
Mismanagement is the word!
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