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With middle class sinking we are becoming a nation of 2 classes just like other countries.
What is your definition of "middle class?" Sounds like you have a very narrow definition. There has always been upper middle class and lower middle class. Not everyone who isn't living paycheck to paycheck is "rich".
The problem today is that many, in their attempt to push a political agenda based on class warfare and jealousy, have made the case that unless you are stuggling and working at a blue collar job from paycheck to paycheck, you're not middle class.
Some FACTS to keep in mind, while we're all panicking and declaring the sky is falling and we're "all doomed." Yes, things are bad, but they were bad in 1974 and 1982 as well. Let's have some perspective.
"On CNBC this morning, the talking heads pitched the new job loss figures in the most negative way. They focused on the fact that the 533,000 jobs lost (according to payroll data) were the highest in years, but they compared this absolute number with data going back to the 1970s and earlier. What's missing? The fact that the economy has close to a record number of people in the labor force. In 1974, for example, when there were high monthly job losses during the 1973-75 recession, the labor force was 92 million. Today it is 155 million, or 68 percent bigger. I don't have the monthly data handy, but I'm willing to bet that the 533K job loss is not close to the monthly percentage job losses in at least three of the months during the 1981-82 recession.
Interestingly, also, the CNBCers spent a large amount of time commenting on the 533K number and not the two tenths of a percentage point increase in the unemployment rate. The current 6.7 percent unemployment rate is still well below the 7.4 percent rate that President-elect Clinton inherited when Clinton's economic advisers were calling for a major reduction in the U.S. government's budget deficit."
Apparently, the last king of France made approximately 8,000x what the lowest paid worker did. Today, the wealthiest Americans make approximately 20,000x versus what minimum wage workers make (and keep in mind, there are plenty who don't make minimum wage through clever finagling by their employers.)
Don't leave any bricks lying around. Someone may decide to pick one up and throw it at something.
Today, the wealthiest Americans make approximately 20,000x versus what minimum wage workers make
So what? What's your point? The problem we have isn't people making money, it's people who lose money asking the taxpayers to bail them out.
I hope that "rich" people make up 100% of the population. I want everyone to be successful. I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you'd like to lower things to a least common denominator.
We aren't doomed. We will simply have to work harder with the resources we have and live more efficiently as a nation.
Agreed. I believe that a grass roots effort to get back to the basics and our legacy of pioneer spirit will help us prevail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
So what? What's your point? The problem we have isn't people making money, it's people who lose money asking the taxpayers to bail them out.
I hope that "rich" people make up 100% of the population. I want everyone to be successful. I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you'd like to lower things to a least common denominator.
I agree too. It's not the rich getting richer, we (the government) should have let the insolvent companies go.. that is a free market economy, right?
I just don't see how this economy is any worse than it has been historically. I still don't think we will hit the unemployment highs of 82-83.
Take a look at the misery index: The United States Misery Index By Year (http://www.miseryindex.us/customindexbyyear.asp - broken link). Granted, this might be "outdated" and may need some tweaking for today's economy. But historically, it's not that bad. Look at 1974-75 for goodness sakes. When we surpass that level, then OK, it's bad.
Homes in some markets from 2001 to 2006 doubled in price. You do not think that was inflation.. cpi does not count mortgages, it counts rent so inflation was able to stay stable.
So what? What's your point? The problem we have isn't people making money, it's people who lose money asking the taxpayers to bail them out.
I hope that "rich" people make up 100% of the population. I want everyone to be successful. I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you'd like to lower things to a least common denominator.
Your proposition, under capitalism, is a statistical impossibility. It is no better a pipedream than the real world application of communism in its attempt to equally distribute the wealth. In capitalism somebody has to be worse off for someone to be better off. This mantra of everybody can be better off is an academic exercise for the educated fools in freshman year college econ who fail to recognize the reality of scarcity of resources.
We can debate ad nauseam the semantics of what income brackets define what strata of the middle class, but the real point to be made is that as opposed to what the IDEA of America was, there has been a distinct erosion of the median's purchasing power, everything from death by inflation, dual income households, service based economy, over-reliance on a debt-based currency, political indoctrination against wage protectionism, union-busting, among others, that have dispossessed the 25-75th percentile in this country.
If I have to disincentivize the 95th percentile to allow the 25-50th percentile to regain said purchasing power, then so be it. Mind you, the 95th percentile is still riding rich and dirty, all they lost is the marginal utility of their last dollar, which wasn't much compared to the same dollar's marginal utility for the 25th percentile. Of course the 95th percentile will throw out all sorts of hyperbole about how disincentivizing the "eff you I got mine" environment that has enabled them to become the 95th percentile is an outright recipe for everybody becoming voluntarily indigent, which is bull. What's even sadder is to witness the same rhetoric from people on this board who must certainly do not belong to the 95th percentile. The political indoctrination of "everybody can be Lebron James" has worked well in America. Anti-populist cheerleading accusing the populists of lowering the common denominator? Oxymoron.
Your proposition, under capitalism, is a statistical impossibility. It is no better a pipedream than the real world application of communism in its attempt to equally distribute the wealth. In capitalism somebody has to be worse off for someone to be better off. This mantra of everybody can be better off is an academic exercise for the educated fools in freshman year college econ who fail to recognize the reality of scarcity of resources.
I was making a rhetorical point, but I can see you're more interested in telling me how wrong I am. My point, which was lost on you, is that there is nothing wrong with being rich. Being rich is good; being rich is what everyone aspires to be, at least those people with ambition.
I would still rather live in a country and world where you are rewarded for your hard work and can achieve what you work for, rather than a country and world where we try to make everyone financially equal and penalize hard work because some of us aren't smart enough or willing to work hard enough to achieve.
Homes in some markets from 2001 to 2006 doubled in price. You do not think that was inflation.. cpi does not count mortgages, it counts rent so inflation was able to stay stable.
Hi shibainu,
What an amazing swindle it was. The biggest expense people make goes up in price and everyone considered this wealth creation. What productive capacity does housing give us exactly? Now we are left with the debt and higher taxes.
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We will simply have to work harder with the resources we have and live more efficiently as a nation.
