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BISMARCK, N.D. - Local governments should have the option of levying property taxes on hospitals, National Guard armories and YMCAs to defray the cost of providing them with fire and police protection, a North Dakota state legislator said.
Lobbyists for hospitals and nonprofit groups bridled Wednesday at the proposal by Rep. George Keiser, R-Bismarck, saying they already provide extensive public services that local governments could not afford.
Taxing non-profits won't help the ill run municipalities with their "it's not my money" mindset when it comes to giving away pensions without planning on how they'll pay the benefits, won't force them to agree to sensible contracts instead of outlandish annual step-increases on top COL on top generous starting pay and short paths to fully vested retirement.
The whole nature of nonprofits is that they provide something that is GOOD for the community. Whether we are talking about a Y with fitness classes and water safety, a hospital that literally is SAVING LIVES by being located close to people instead of some unincorporated area in the fringes, or churches that provide if nothing else some "glue" to their community with traditions, routine and often a whole range of charitable acts.
Personally I would rather all law makers have their salaries reduced to ZERO before I would support any sort of tax on non-profits.
When the CEO's make millions a year in "non-profit" organizations, YES, they should be taxed (and I think they should lose their non-profit status, OBVIOUSLY somebody IS profitting)... when a CEO makes the average median income for the city, then no... it's that SIMPLE....
Chet Everett - what town are you complaining about? I live in an affluent town in southern New Hampshire and the town is not worth working for. Salaries and benefits are so low that even the best paid can't afford to live here. Besides why shouldn’t towns be able to attract good people with good pay and benefits or would you prefer political hacks being hired at low pay for essentially no show jobs by their brother in laws. Low pay equals less and lower quality work.
If you think a town job is too over paid and cushy why don't you try and get one.
If a facility is using town utilities, police, fire protection and similar items the facility should pay a prorated fee for the services.
In Maine, when each non-profit does it's original filing, the state decides who gets non-profit status, or not.
The VFW is recognized Federally as non-profit. But in Maine, the state says 'no'.
In total 3 states say 'no', so Maine is not alone.
However it means that the VFW posts in Maine, must file income taxes with the state. And must pay property taxes.
When dealing with the electric company, the phone company, and heating oil companies; they each charge at a higher rate because the VFW does not have 'non-profit' status with the state.
I hold nothing against the folks that work for municipalities in any capacity -- most that I know do a pretty good job be it plowing streets, servicing water systems, enforcing laws or fighting fires. My gripe is with the morons that cannot budget for these services and fail to be open and honest about how to ensure that these vital things are done. Instead you have elected officials at virtually every level putting way too much time into funding their own "political campaign".
In Illinois (where I live) the worst example of this is reflected by our current governor who is under impeachment for egregious efforts to shake down people to contribute to his campaign fund in exchange for political favors, including appointment to the US Senate! Our previous governor, of the other party, is currently serving a Federal prison sentence for his corrupt practices.
I do not know much about local politics in NH, but I do know that the MILLIONS of dollars spent on your recent duel to select a US Senator did NOTHING to ensure the financial viability of the state. I understand that NH charges no income nor sales taxes: NH.gov - Resources for New Hampshire Residents (http://www.nh.gov/residents/index.html - broken link) I am sure this causes a ridiculous burden to rest on property taxes. As such a tax is levied without concern for people's ability to PAY many people consider this a hugely negative tax to those on fixed incomes such as retirees. Perhaps with a more modern tax system there would be funds to ensure fair pay to municipal workers.
I would ask what 'services' are being provided to the PEOPLE who belong to the YMCA , church or hospital? Have they not ALREADY done their part to support the town by paying their PROPERTY directly on the home they own and live in or indirectly through their landlords and the rent they pay to them which then supports property tax? Nobody is saying that they should not have to pay water bills, but the concept that the members of an organization like a VFW or YMCA should be forced to pay higher dues to pay for property tax is just nuts! OTOH if the VFW drives local FOR PROFIT taverns or wedding halls out of business by being able to have a lower overhead maybe there is a valid claim that they are NOT strictly "for the good"...
The issue of the COMPENSATION of the Hospital leaders is completely separate: If they live in state where their INCOME is taxed they must pay, if income is not taxed (which seems completely bizare to me, afterall is not the easiest tax to collect?) then their residence probably reflects some pretty lavish compensation...
Some localities that have large amounts of non-taxable property receive a payment in lieu of taxes. Annapolis, MD is one. With the Naval Academy and multitudes of state government offices about 30% of the property there is tax exempt. Prince Georges County, MD has the same arrangement because of Andrews Air Force Base, as I think most places with large military bases do. It doesn't really become an issue until you have a lot of property involved. My town was looking at this recently, the Catholic Church bought several properties and had several more willed to it and some of us were getting concerned. The Church ended up selling several of the willed properties so the issue subsided. Non-profits are not set up to not make money, they are just supposed to plow the profits back in to the entity. Some states do limit executive compensation when granting the non-profit a charter.
yes. Let them pay property tax and then lower the overall property tax for everyone else.
Also churches should have property tax on them as well.
I agree. Exemptions just distort the basis for municipal taxes where those that demand services should pay for them in an equitable way.
There are many laws that distort tax bases and property markets (TE, religious, age exemptions, regs like Cal prop13, etc.) that had good intentions but cause large problems. Many of these issues should be addressed by society but without making tax collection such a inequitable farce.
In New Mexico, our property tax system is completely upside down because we have a rich state (north), poor state (south) scenario. Because of the celebrity influx around Santa Fe, property taxes in that area were going through the roof. So our distinguish legislators introduced a bill back in 2001 that would slow the re-evaluation of property in the north BUT completely screwed the south. This year’s legislators have introduced 5 bills to technically correct what the 1 bill back in 2001 did to property taxes in this state. And guess what? These bills are going to further screw the people of this state, even the ones in the north. What all these bills have done and will continue to do if create a ‘disparity’ in comparable properties, that is, with the same or very close market values. Property ‘A’ could be paying 2-3 time more property taxes then Property ‘B’ while both have the same market values. It is this ‘disparity’ that brings me back to the topic of this thread. There is also a major ‘disparity’ between properties that do pay property tax and those that are exempt. All non-profits, whether educational or social institutions, receive exactly the same services from the City and County, as residential property owners do. When these institutions receive service, the individual residential property owner has to bear the burden. As they say in Illinois; no pay no play. And our new President also said “we should share the wealth” and I say we should share the tax burden as well.
The bottom line is: if you receive a service from the City or County, you should pay for it. The only exception would be any entity that provides their own services, like a military base.
Last edited by kralspaces; 03-08-2009 at 05:29 AM..
Reason: last thought...
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