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While I am in a confessing mood I should probably tell you all that I also convinced Madoff to try his ponzi scheme, killed the last sasquatch, hid Osama Bin Laden under my bed for the past 8 years, stole a sucker from a baby and assassinated Archduke Ferdinand.
I'm not looking for sympathy, I was just trying to vent frustration, really. I thought I did everything right; I went to college, worked the full time and lived off of ramen noodles so I wouldn't have any student loans, kept my credit card (only 1) balance paid off every month and bought a (for my area) humble 100 year old 3 bed one bath fixer-upper in a decent neighborhood so I could raise my kids where there were good schools and not a lot of crime. You know, all that "American Dream" BS.
Now I work for peanuts as a government slave (because there are no better jobs) and every year "the man" takes a little more away than he gives up. So much for upward mobility and doing everything the respectable way. From my perspective the middle class IS going away. And I am not the only one. This is not good for the country, only the wealthy elite.
While I am in a confessing mood I should probably tell you all that I also convinced Madoff to try his ponzi scheme, killed the last sasquatch, hid Osama Bin Laden under my bed for the past 8 years, stole a sucker from a baby and assassinated Archduke Ferdinand.
I'm not looking for sympathy, I was just trying to vent frustration, really. I thought I did everything right; I went to college, worked the full time and lived off of ramen noodles so I wouldn't have any student loans, kept my credit card (only 1) balance paid off every month and bought a (for my area) humble 100 year old 3 bed one bath fixer-upper in a decent neighborhood so I could raise my kids where there were good schools and not a lot of crime. You know, all that "American Dream" BS.
Now I work for peanuts as a government slave (because there are no better jobs) and every year "the man" takes a little more away than he gives up. So much for upward mobility and doing everything the respectable way. From my perspective the middle class IS going away. And I am not the only one. This is not good for the country, only the wealthy elite.
Sure, I understand where you are coming from. Misery loves comapanty too. So you will find plenty of people who feel the same way you do. I know a guy here who you would get along well with. His name is Randomdude.. he usually posts here when he is at work. The job he does only takes him about 30min and the rest of the day he posts on here basically saying why he thinks socialism would be better than capitalism. You should look him up.. maybe You, Chuck, Sheenie, & him can start some kind of sympathy group.
Sure, I understand where you are coming from. Misery loves comapanty too. So you will find plenty of people who feel the same way you do. I know a guy here who you would get along well with. His name is Randomdude.. he usually posts here when he is at work. The job he does only takes him about 30min and the rest of the day he posts on here basically saying why he thinks socialism would be better than capitalism. You should look him up.. maybe You, Chuck, Sheenie, & him can start some kind of sympathy group.
or, we could start a lynch mob. What trendy address do you live at?
Chuck,
You sound like a decent guy. You and I just disagree on a lot thats all.
"Like I said, worse case scenario for most of US that bought in the last 5-7 years (prices are already down to 2002?) is to default. Oh well, no big deal. You'd be the one holding the string if those of Us who actually put skin in the game get fed up and bail."
Lets get a few things straight. The only way I would be holding any strings is if we enter an EXTREME DEPRESSION. I have saved and sacrificed for years so to an extent I'm recession proof. You think if you bail out I couldn't do the same? Regardless, I would never even consider walking out on something I signed my name to. I was raised with better morals and values than that. It's funny how all the people who were bragging and running their mouths about how much their homes went up in value, either lost their house or are threating to JUST WALK OUT. Whats funny is these very people are the same ones causing the middle class to "go away" Or have the opinion that the middle class is going away.
Also, what are you talking about "get fed up and bail"? What would you be fed up with exactly? Maybe that people who bought homes they couldn't afford(Creating the bubble) then walked away and caused a major recession which then caused a domino effect and is effecting your job now? With your mentality of possibly walking away you would just cause yourself & the economy even more harm. People are doing exactly what you said.. they are walking away and thats what is adding fuel to the fire right now.
"We bought in an area where supposively most of the people commuted to high income area to make a living... so we assumed they had the incomes and therefore the price levels were acceptable."
Who lied to you? Who didn't do their research? It was only the most expensive purchase you will ever make in your life. I guess that is somehow my fault right?
Na, I don't blame you at all. We're all part of this mess by default of living in the USA and for that matter, the world.
I don't blame anybody for our decision. We did our research and accounted for acceptable losses with the information we had available at the time. Unfortunately for a lot of folks, a lot of the information was behind iron curtains and have slowly crept out month after month, year after year, with more coming along the way.
Anyhow, we'll manage. All I'm saying is that having a straight edge attitude that your right, I'm wrong, you should of known, etc. etc far too simplifies the issue at hand. If everybody had known, none of it would of happened in the first place.
Oh well, I hope we both get through this, and the economy improves. But, I have my reservations on the outcome for the forseable future.
There's still a good chance we're going to enter a depression, after all a few more months of severe "recession" is pretty much the start of a depression.
Anyhow, I have nothing against those who walk out. I would actually encourage it inspite of the damage it would have on me. The bottom line is that America has over leveraged itself, taking on risks, causing prices to go sky high for all goods by creating an artificial demand.
The only way to get ourselves more competitive is to allow for some moderate deflation. Who does deflation really hurt? Those who hold debt - the largest debt being a mortgage. If debt becomes too cumbersome, people default... and those that took on too much risk by loaning the money takes the hit. Those who hold cash hold to benefit and find more opportunities as things deflate.
In the end, it'll be your ability to find opportunities and innovate. It would be great if some of the big boys were allowed to fail so others can rise to the occasion. But, as it is, the system is broken - bail outs of the major corporations and banks, at the cost of those responsible while letting smaller competitors fail.
So, Yes, let people default. And if we can't hold on, we will too. That is the only way the little guy can actually revolt against a system designed for and by the guys at the top. Like I said, you play with the hand your dealt with.
Sure, I understand where you are coming from. Misery loves comapanty too. So you will find plenty of people who feel the same way you do. I know a guy here who you would get along well with. His name is Randomdude.. he usually posts here when he is at work. The job he does only takes him about 30min and the rest of the day he posts on here basically saying why he thinks socialism would be better than capitalism. You should look him up.. maybe You, Chuck, Sheenie, & him can start some kind of sympathy group.
Na, actually we should start a company/organization that capitalizes on the inefficiencies of the big boys and their crony capitalism.
Seems like we have IT people, accounting people, managers, business owners, all people with degrees, etc. etc. that realizes that there is something wrong with the system. The workers of the world.
There is a better way to do things. We just need to pull our resources.... for some reason... what is and has been happening reminds me of the goal of "Fight Club". Weird.
This is not good for the country, only the wealthy elite.
Its not good for the wealthy elite either. In countries with a thriving middle class, the wealthy elite are much wealthier than in countries without a middle class....that is once you take the top 1/2% out of the puzzle.
Well, just a thought on this, and how the "elite" are going to deposit the next 30 years of the middle class' life in their accounts.
Let's see...
1) The bubble burst when mortgages bumped up to the harsher terms and no one was left to buy the homes as inflated prices. The bad debt ended up on the big boy's books...
2) So they got bailed out. Wall Street survives.
3) But the worker bees get laid off thanks to declining revenue since the cash spigot got shut off.
4) So foreclosures continue... but recall the holders of the notes got bailed out.
5) So other richy rich firms acquire the houses at fire sale prices.
6) When and if the economy does come back up... worker bees go back to work...
7) Richy Riches then sell the houses at reinflated prices to the newly re-employed worker bees thus making both front end and back end profits on top of the bailout money.
Well, just a thought on this, and how the "elite" are going to deposit the next 30 years of the middle class' life in their accounts.
Let's see...
1) The bubble burst when mortgages bumped up to the harsher terms and no one was left to buy the homes as inflated prices. The bad debt ended up on the big boy's books...
2) So they got bailed out. Wall Street survives.
3) But the worker bees get laid off thanks to declining revenue since the cash spigot got shut off.
4) So foreclosures continue... but recall the holders of the notes got bailed out.
5) So other richy rich firms acquire the houses at fire sale prices.
6) When and if the economy does come back up... worker bees go back to work...
7) Richy Riches then sell the houses at reinflated prices to the newly re-employed worker bees thus making both front end and back end profits on top of the bailout money.
Same old rule... "The house always wins".
Yup, and that's why we must burn the house down and start over.
Its not good for the wealthy elite either. In countries with a thriving middle class, the wealthy elite are much wealthier than in countries without a middle class....that is once you take the top 1/2% out of the puzzle.
I agree, generally speaking, if there is a strong middle class, everybody prospers and the wealthy are actually better off. But, as it is, the system is gamed so that only the wealthy elite who are "connected" are going to prosper and suck as much out of the system before they bail to another Country to live like kings.
Saying it another way, if your feeling the hurt.... then your not a wealthy elite. Those who offed themselves, are being jailed, etc. are scape goats - diversions.
Well I will be the first one to say the bailouts of the big banks etc. were B.S., I was 100% against it, and still am. I also think bailouts for idiots who bought something they couldn't afford shouldn't be bailed out either.
We need this recession. We as a country need to learn how to conserve and stop worrying so much about material things and who has what. Also, reduce our dependency on foreign oil and instead look towards renewable energy (Wind, Solar, geothermal heat, etc.) Also, natural gas.
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