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Old 03-20-2009, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 9,409,301 times
Reputation: 2547

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
too many amatuer economists.
Well, usually the definition of "professional" is one who is compensated for their talent.

However, dont you find it ironic then, that until a few Olympiads ago, the best athletes in the world were "amature"?

I do not see how being an "amateur" would, at any level, suggest one does not know what they are talking about, which seems to be the context you are using it in.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:11 PM
 
Location: In My Own Little World. . .
3,238 posts, read 8,212,151 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
So, if you agree with this assessment, that wealth is not created but transferred, then by logical deduction you also agree that the middle class is shrinking and going away (which is the assessment from the OP).

If wealth is continuously being transferred to the wealthy (as the GINI and the incomes reports show)... then Yes, you agree with the rest of us that the middle class is shrinking. Ergo, it is also harder to become or stay in the middle class as has been our argument since the beginning.

-chuck22b
Sorry, agreeing with the statement that wealth is not created (made from nothing), but transfered (going from one person to another), does not mean I agree that the middle class is shrinking. That was quite a leap you took in your "logical deduction."
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 3,058,164 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
One of the things people typically forget--especially as they try to make ends meet as young families--is that earnings for the average American worker peak at age 49 (census data again)...so, if you are a young family, your income could be far less than that of your neighbor down the street. But in making this comparison people forget to recognize the effect that age and experience has on earnings. So, for many if feels like they are not keeping up--when in fact they are doing much better than their parents, or their grand-parents. Look at the graph.
You just made another interesting point. As you age, your income potential SHOULD become greater due to experience and skills... and then it tapers off when you get even older (bell curve).

US Median age has been increasing over the last 30 years currently around 36 years old and therefore, in theory, median incomes should rise accordingly.
http://iucar.iu.edu/images/medage.gif (broken link)
Median Age of the U.S. Population (http://iucar.iu.edu/geninfo/demo/medage.html - broken link)

Instead, the sad thing is, the rise in median age is actually faster than the rise in median incomes as previously discussed (age rising roughly .8 years per year or 2.2% while median incomes rising 1.02% as previously discussed). So, even the older middle class folks are slipping through the cracks.

Depending on what segment is rising faster (18-34, 35-64, 65+)... we might see a substantial drop in median incomes in the coming 5-10 years as the older folks fall from their peak earning years.

Sad. But the middle class conundrum effects goes beyond age.

According to the graph, a median age of ~27 was making a median of $19,200 (in 2006 dollars) in the 1970s... while a median age of ~35 was making a median of $25,795 (in 2006 dollars). So, not only are median incomes rising slower than for the 50 percentile folks... your earning power as you get older has greatly been diminishing. Great

-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 03-20-2009 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:32 PM
 
14,030 posts, read 20,248,369 times
Reputation: 23566
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
too many amatuer economists.
What..you want that Alan Greenspan or Paul Volcker should post here?
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:37 PM
 
Location: In My Own Little World. . .
3,238 posts, read 8,212,151 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
So, if you agree with this assessment, that wealth is not created but transferred, then by logical deduction you also agree that the middle class is shrinking and going away (which is the assessment from the OP).
-chuck22b
Go back and read the OP. He/she was suggesting you COULD work towards a middle class life, and suggested reading Scratch Beginnings. He/she was NOT posting that the middle class is shrinking and going away.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 3,058,164 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
What..you want that Alan Greenspan or Paul Volcker should post here?
Generally speaking... a lot of the Business and Economics posters here on CD are fairly knowledgeable and have knowledge through either experience or education or both.

I have been very impressed at the quality and the depth of discussions here. Props to CD Data posters

-chuck22b
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:48 PM
 
1,821 posts, read 4,182,253 times
Reputation: 4911
Actually, we would be better off as a country by following the gallactically obvious advice of many of the posters in CD as it pertains to these very economic issues, rather than common sheep accepting at face value the "insight" of the lap dogs of the system on CNN just because they have high offices and a loudspeaker to spew it from.....just sayin'....

And ditto on the economic discussions on here, I can't find a two people out on the street at the same time where I can actually have an informed discussion on the future of our economic destitution, most are too "busy" checking out the march madness bracket these days....
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
2,193 posts, read 4,687,417 times
Reputation: 1075
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020 View Post
Actually, we would be better off as a country by following the gallactically obvious advice of many of the posters in CD as it pertains to these very economic issues, rather than common sheep accepting at face value the "insight" of the lap dogs of the system on CNN just because they have high offices and a loudspeaker to spew it from.....just sayin'....

And ditto on the economic discussions on here, I can't find a two people out on the street at the same time where I can actually have an informed discussion on the future of our economic destitution, most are too "busy" checking out the march madness bracket these days....
I totally agree. I have learned so much from this forum from the posters here. Y'all are very intelligent people. I really appreciate the information and discussions on here.

I find it surprising that others are posting sarcastic remarks about 'amateur economists.' It's like, well opposed to what; the MSM cheerleaders, politicians who lie and cheat, or leaders who are just dumb? The people who post here are a heck of a lot smarter, honest and more educated than the crap that fills Washington.

I also have tried to discuss the economy with friends, but they are just clueless, don't understand, don't want to listen and/or just nod their heads in agreement to shut me up lol.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Castle Hills
1,133 posts, read 2,421,790 times
Reputation: 611
"With all due respect, it is EACH of our responsibilities to change it for ourselves. Nobody is going to do it for you. You have to do it for yourself--or it won't get done. (Personal responsibility and all that is included therein)"

This poster has it figured out. Some of the other posters on here are "Save me Feed me's". I'm tired of hearing the excuses out there. People, we live in a messed up world and it will never be perfect. LIFE IS NOT FAIR... and it really sucks sometimes but you have to take the good with the bad and make something of yourself.


By the way, I am the OP and I think the lady who wrote "Nickel & Dimed" is a nut job. This 20 year old kid made her look stupid. She was complaining about how hard it was out there but she made bad decisions along the way! That "kid" who wrote scratch beginnings made her look like a clown in that interview. You mean to tell me this lady had a real tough time yet she NEVER HAD A ROOMMATE in all those years? That was a HUGE mistake right there. Also, she never stayed in one area long enough to work her way up? She stayed in HOTELS? What?

The problem out there is people do not know how to work their way up in life. They would rather sit back and complain about whos fault it is that they are failures or struggling or DON'T HAVE ENOUGH. This is the same attitude that keeps them right where they are.

I don't care about graphs,formulas, etc. If you want something bad enough you can go out and get it. Too many people have already proven me right.
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Old 03-21-2009, 12:12 AM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,648,605 times
Reputation: 879
When Obama and cronies said they were going to tax the rich, those making over $250,000 or above, they just redefined the upper-middle class. Two college tenured professors with three children make that much, that's not rich. Without children, still not rich.
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