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the original post suggests $10/hour as a starting wage, no benefits and then says "Detroit's cost of living is cheap - that'd be good money there".
You'd be bringing home about $1200/month after taxes. That's $14,400 a year.
Um.. no - that's not good money anywhere, and no cost of living in America would make that comfortable to live on.
I'm really not going to get into this discussion more than that - but anyone who thinks $10 is a LIVING wage is crazy. Minimum wage is below poverty level, $10 is poverty level..
At $15/hour you'd be starting to approach livable, but that would be a very low standard of living.
You'd really need to be above 20/hour ($38400 before taxes) to get into a reasonable standard of living -- that might net you $2500/month. Which after housing and utilities (figure $1K), transportation and food (figure $500), household costs and healtcare (figure $250+) would allow you between $500 and $750 a month for savings/retirement -- or childcare expenses.
and the prevailing wages of the local market for that skill
....which is driven by the supply of that skill.
I don't care whether someone has a college degree. It is not per se automatically worth anything to me. A college degree from Harvard is worth zero to someone operating an airgun in a GM plant.
The wage earned by anyone, should utimately be determined by the importance of the job and the rarity of the skill required to do a job.
I don't believe most UAW jobs require special skills. The work might be physically demanding, and repetitious, but you don't need a special education nor genetic advantages to do the work.
One of the biggest problems leading to the UAW's problems is that the automakers didn't have the guts to stand up to the union's demands over time. They should have told the union "no" to the rich benefits. The US government should have let Chrysler fail the first time they were bailed out. The automakers and the UAW would have taken notice that you can't screw up and be saved.
instead the union turned to the federal government for a bailout.
Chrysler has been trying for months to refinance the government loans, which cost the company $1.2 billion in interest payments last year. The company's CEO has said the loans carry average interest rates of around 12 percent, far higher than it can get on the open market.
1.2 billion in interest payments is a lot of wages.
You'd really need to be above 20/hour ($38400 before taxes) to get into a reasonable standard of living -- that might net you $2500/month. Which after housing and utilities (figure $1K), transportation and food (figure $500), household costs and healtcare (figure $250+) would allow you between $500 and $750 a month for savings/retirement -- or childcare expenses.
...looks like I was close with my $50K- $60K guess. The above says maybe more around $40K is the entry point to a living wage income.
I guess not too many folks make that anymore, huh?
According to this website (don't know anything about the website, but it was easier than trying to figure out the PDFs from the census bureau) the meadian HOUSEHOLD income in 2009 was 49K+. It had been in the low 50's since 1998 .. but slipped back into the 49 territory, no doubt due to the economic issues.
Poverty guidelines for a household of 4 in 2009 was defined as household income of: 22,050 (excluding Alaska). So median household income is a little more than 2x the poverty level.
For a family of 2: $14,570, for a single person: $10,830.
These are the figures that determine whether or not a family qualifies for aid.
Now - that said - sure $40K is a good bit above the poverty level. But - that said, I think trying to live on much below that is extremely difficult -- without having to take advantage of aid programs.
So for everyone who wants people to not be taking advantage of "entitlements", etc.... you have to pay people enough money in jobs they can obtain - for them to not *need* aid.
And to me - $10 / hour is an acknowledgment that the person will either be still living with their parents, and thereby not out on their own -- or an acknowledgment that the person will probably need medicaid, and food stamps to get by.
instead the union turned to the federal government for a bailout.
Chrysler has been trying for months to refinance the government loans, which cost the company $1.2 billion in interest payments last year. The company's CEO has said the loans carry average interest rates of around 12 percent, far higher than it can get on the open market.
1.2 billion in interest payments is a lot of wages.
I don't care whether someone has a college degree. It is not per se automatically worth anything to me. A college degree from Harvard is worth zero to someone operating an airgun in a GM plant.
The wage earned by anyone, should utimately be determined by the importance of the job and the rarity of the skill required to do a job.
I don't believe most UAW jobs require special skills. The work might be physically demanding, and repetitious, but you don't need a special education nor genetic advantages to do the work.
I am betting that most everyone, including me and you could easily be replaced by lower paid workers. This is not a union thing. They just have more leverage. In most cases management has a heavy, upper hand. With the unions they have less power. Doesn't bother me one bit.
What function do you perform that some newly minted college kid or even a high school graduate couldn't/wouldn't do for far less money? Most everyone is overpaid on some level. Most just won't admit it.
I am betting that most everyone, including me and you could easily be replaced by lower paid workers. This is not a union thing. They just have more leverage. In most cases management has a heavy, upper hand. With the unions they have less power. Doesn't bother me one bit.
What function do you perform that some newly minted college kid or even a high school graduate couldn't/wouldn't do for far less money? Most everyone is overpaid on some level. Most just won't admit it.
This might be true. I'm confident my job can't be done by a fresh college grad, simply because they don't have actual experience yet. A fresh college grad would not instinctively know what to do. They would make many mistakes and cause a loss of revenue. But someone with significantly less experience overall but a concentration in my skills could do the job.
Many in my field (enterprise software) have seen significant earnings dropoffs over the last several years. We have no contracts to prevent this. That's how it should be when the economy falters. Unions for some reason think they should be immune.
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